Time to Stock up Ilford Film (Pan-F)?

Snapper · Sep 10, 2004

Quote "Agfa Ultra 50 and recently Fuji Velvia 50 are all went into history because of the "upgrade"."

Excuse me - did I miss something here?! Fuji have discontinued Velvia 50? Surely not. If they have then it's time to give up colour photography altogether.

Tom Smith · Sep 10, 2004

"The reason I choose to get Pan-f is because it is the current slowest traditional b&w film in the market."

- "Really? What about Efke 25?"

I guess Pan F is the last mainstream ISO 50 film left. I've found out Efke is a lot slower and available, just like Gigabit film (ISO 40). A pro' (here I go spreading myths) told me that Konica IR750 has much finer grain than Ilford Pan F+, although is an expensive shot unless used for IR. Anyway, that's been discontinued. One of the slowest mainstream films available is still made by Kodak - an ISO less than 5 - called Positive Release Negative film. Can't see it replacing Pan F+ though.....

Tom Smith · Sep 10, 2004

- Quote "Agfa Ultra 50 and recently Fuji Velvia 50 are all went into history because of the "upgrade"."

- "Excuse me - did I miss something here?! Fuji have discontinued Velvia 50? Surely not. If they have then it's time to give up colour photography altogether."

Maybe it's just a typo. Snapper seems to be discussing print film - Agfa Ultra and Konica Impresa, both ISO 50.........

bwfans · Sep 10, 2004

Correction 1: I just checked FujiFilm website. Velvia 50 is not discontinued yet. But it could be winding down if 100F is widely accepted in the market. For now it is sure a good decision because a few photographers told me they don't like Velvia 100F.

Correction 2: Pan-F is the slowest B&W film from Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford, Agfa, Konica (Big 5), but not the slowest film in the world. There are a few other film manufaturers like the ones in East Europe and the ones in China. For some reason I usually don't include them in my reasoning, which is not really fair .

kjsphoto · Sep 10, 2004

<QUOTE>
- "Excuse me - did I miss something here?! Fuji have discontinued Velvia 50? Surely not. If they have then it's time to give up colour photography altogether."
</QUOTE>

Exactly also fuji just came out with the new film Fulji Velvia 100 and continues to come out with new film. Also for soem stock markets they will still only accecpt trannies as they say the current digital cameras on the market will not give them the quality they need.

So I have no idea but what I do know is that I am stickign with film even if I have to coat my own plates! I have digital cameras and I do not like the quality.

If Ilford, Kodak and the others go out of business then more business for JANDC. And I am already starting to move over to them. Support the small guy sand scre the big corporation that want to force this digi crap down your throats. And for chemicals mix your own or and viva PyroCat HD! As soon as I run out of my chemistry I am going to start using this stuff!

So my point is there is always other options.

jandc · Sep 10, 2004

bwfans said:
If no one stocks up then Ilford film is really dead. There is a real need for the spike for Ilford to get a buyer.

Without a buyer what do you think Ilford will do to their B&W film production line?

A short sightness will lead to the conclusion of premature buying, but look further it is not. If everyone very coolly standing on the shore, holding on the purchase then your dearly Ilford films will be very maturely dead.

Any buyer willing to invest millions of dollars is not going to even consider a short term spike centered on a Y2K type buying frenzy as significant. They are going to look at the books, the sales over the last few years, Ilford's profit margins etc.

What will happen if everyone (not likely) goes down the suggested path is that the users of Ilford film will be stocked up with years of supply and stop buying in the future. This will hasten the closing of the factory since future sales will go down the toilet.

The actual reality is that a handful of people buying a bunch of film isn't going to make any difference at all as the total number of square meters of film this represents to Ilford is a decimal percentage of their production.

papagene · Sep 10, 2004

I agree with jandc, a spike in buying Ilford products won't amount to a hill of beans to whoever buys them out. A steady, continual buying pattern would be more helpful in the long run towards keeping Ilford film/paper/chemicals on the market.
So instead of panicking, just keep buying as usual; maybe increasing what you buy just a little.
Let's not get crazy and start a stampede.
gene

bmac · Sep 10, 2004

"Y2K type buying frenzy" LOVE IT!!!

photomc · Sep 10, 2004

Instead of buying lots of film now, would it not be better to start USING more film? That is what my plan is, at least until the plant close the doors.

joeyk49 · Sep 10, 2004

Good stuff is good stuff

I haven't read all othe posts in this thread so forgive me if I'm echo ing someone else.

Generally speaking, if a company has been around for a while and makes a good product, which is generally in demand, makes a reasonable profit, yada yada yada, they are bound to be bought by another, usually larger company, looking to diversify its holdings or enter a particular market. Its not the same, but I'm reminded of Fords purchase of Jaguar and GM's purchase of Saab, Minolta/Konica, etc.... I'm hoping that this is the case with Ilford.

photomc · Sep 10, 2004

Good point joeyk49..and let's not forget Polaroid..many sang their death song, yet there is still product going out the door, years later.

bwfans · Sep 10, 2004

jandc said:
The actual reality is that a handful of people buying a bunch of film isn't going to make any difference at all as the total number of square meters of film this represents to Ilford is a decimal percentage of their production.

We buyers "isn't going to make any difference at all"? I don't think this argument can sustain the test. Take AZO paper as an example, I was told Michael Smith helped to save the Kodak production line on this paper by putting large orders. It seems he worked with Kodak alone. I guess that time may really have "a handful of people" laughing at his "buying frenzy" .

About the necessity of stocking good old films, now Michael Smith probably sit on his stack of Super XX films, laughing at those who likes the film, but got no films.

Because of my hopeless "buying frenzy" a few years ago, I am glad today I still have cases of APX25 well stored, with 2005 expiration date, and expect to be usable at least another 3-5 years after the expiration date in the freezer. How many people interested in APX25 and have to pay $10+ a roll in eBay today?

bwfans · Sep 10, 2004

Ilford film business - in a "disposal process"

Interesting readings from Ilford Press Release today (Sept. 10, 2004):

"Currently we are analysing the traditional photographic business with a view to assessing its potential for sale as a going concern."

Whilst this process continues we will be talking to ILFORD Imagings major customers and suppliers to maintain their support through this restructuring and disposal process.

"the workforce at Mobberley has reduced to 375 (from 740) whilst the prospect of a sale of the business is explored."

jandc · Sep 10, 2004

bwfans said:
We buyers "isn't going to make any difference at all"? I don't think this argument can sustain the test. Take AZO paper as an example, I was told Michael Smith helped to save the Kodak production line on this paper by putting large orders. It seems he worked with Kodak alone. I guess that time may really have "a handful of people" laughing at his "buying frenzy" .

About the necessity of stocking good old films, now Michael Smith probably sit on his stack of Super XX films, laughing at those who likes the film, but got no films.

Because of my hopeless "buying frenzy" a few years ago, I am glad today I still have cases of APX25 well stored, with 2005 expiration date, and expect to be usable at least another 3-5 years after the expiration date in the freezer. How many people interested in APX25 and have to pay $10+ a roll in eBay today?

You prove my point. Michael Smith buying every box of Super XX he could find didn't stop the discontinuation of Super XX. You and all the others hording Agfa 25 didn't keep it on the shelves. Same deal with Agfa sheet films and 120 film, the production line is gone and it's not coming back. Azo is still there because Kodak has the line up and Michael ordered a huge quantity at once. If the line goes down because Kodak decides to dismantle it then nothing will get it going again.

What you don't understand is that the artistic photographic community is a very small percentage of Ilfords, Agfa's or Kodak's film sales. Every one of us could buy a 5 year supply and it still doesn't move the meter. One government order for B&W film from a small nation is more meaningful to these companies than all of our B&W sales put together.

TPPhotog · Sep 10, 2004

jandc said:
What you don't understand is that the artistic photographic community is a very small percentage of Ilfords, Agfa's or Kodak's film sales. Every one of us could buy a 5 year supply and it still doesn't move the meter. One government order for B&W film from a small nation is more meaningful to these companies than all of our B&W sales put together.

Sniff you sure know how to make a guy feel small But seriousely your spot on, it's the point and shoot happy family snaps that drive the market and film isn't what they are buying. Although we will survive even if we have to change suppliers and brands we have been living on borrowed time for a good many years.

bwfans · Sep 11, 2004

jandc said:
You prove my point. Michael Smith buying every box of Super XX he could find didn't stop the discontinuation of Super XX. You and all the others hording Agfa 25 didn't keep it on the shelves. Same deal with Agfa sheet films and 120 film, the production line is gone and it's not coming back. Azo is still there because Kodak has the line up and Michael ordered a huge quantity at once. If the line goes down because Kodak decides to dismantle it then nothing will get it going again.

What you don't understand is that the artistic photographic community is a very small percentage of Ilfords, Agfa's or Kodak's film sales. Every one of us could buy a 5 year supply and it still doesn't move the meter. One government order for B&W film from a small nation is more meaningful to these companies than all of our B&W sales put together.

You got time order wrong so you proved your wrong arguments or points.

Both Michael and I bought our films after Kodak and Agfa decided and announced the killing of the film production. Not before that.

Now Ilford does not announce any killing of the film yet.

Before and after. A big difference there.

BlackandWhite40 · Sep 11, 2004

Generally speaking, if a company has been around for a while and makes a good product, which is generally in demand, makes a reasonable profit, yada yada yada, they are bound to be bought by another, usually larger company, looking to diversify its holdings or enter a particular market. Its not the same, but I'm reminded of Fords purchase of Jaguar and GM's purchase of Saab, Minolta/Konica, etc.... I'm hoping that this is the case with Ilford.

........Let's hope so !!! Fingers crossed.

modafoto · Sep 12, 2004

TPPhotog said:
Try this thread that got me hooked on Rodinal ..... here comes Morten LOL

haha!

I am glad that people are getting unto Rodinal. I am working on some funny still lives featuring Rodinal as a model!
Rodinal is addictive...give it to your kids!

Morten

TPPhotog · Sep 12, 2004

modafoto said:
haha!
I am glad that people are getting unto Rodinal. I am working on some funny still lives featuring Rodinal as a model!
Rodinal is addictive...give it to your kids!
Morten

Still lifes? Can't wait to see those

Les McLean · Sep 12, 2004

jandc said:
What you don't understand is that the artistic photographic community is a very small percentage of Ilfords, Agfa's or Kodak's film sales. Every one of us could buy a 5 year supply and it still doesn't move the meter. One government order for B&W film from a small nation is more meaningful to these companies than all of our B&W sales put together.

jandc are absolutely right, the fall in black and white film and paper sales started back in the early days of digital imaging when the newspapers and other big users converted to digital cameras and computers.

joeyk49 · Sep 12, 2004

I agree Les.

There has been an obvious migration to digital; for obvious reasons.

There has been a noticable return to black and white by non-artistic photographers over the past fives years or so. Although not mainstream, I have noticed that many families have dabbled with b&w. These are mostly people that have a healthy interest in photography and want to diversify what they have on display at home. Kodak's marketing of their 400 c-41 film seems to taken advantage of (or did it help create) this trend.

I think film manufacturers will continue to produce b&w analog film for years to come. It will remain a matter of types and quality...

bwfans · Sep 12, 2004

I stocked enough Ilford materials by now - did all my share to support Ilford. I doubt I may have more than B&H in certain things . I actually may not need Ilford any more

.

I does not stock Rodinal. May be I should get some. I read somewhere it will last forever. But at least there is a rumored formular for it.

I don't think Pan-F will be in production in 10 years. And Ilford will not produce B&W films and papers by that time. They might stop being a B&W supplier in three years.

Now let's have a rest, guess who will buy Ilford's monochrome business.

Aggie · Sep 12, 2004

bwfans said:
Now let's have a rest, guess who will buy Ilford's monochrome business.

Sean will, he has a bit of spare room next to his monster enlarger. They just need to put in on the New Zealand auction site.

Ian Grant · Sep 12, 2004

bwfans said:
Now let's have a rest, guess who will buy Ilford's monochrome business.

Fuji and use the coating plant to produce Inkjet papers as well ?

More seriously we are all getting too worried about dwindling supplies, unfortunately there is an obvious need for a shake out as the sector shrinks and there are too many maufacturers with over capacity.

When I was in our former colony last year it was obvious that Kodak's prescence in Rochester had dwindled considerably.

But it was interesting and stimulating to find the city at the heart of a re-surgence in the "Wet Plate Colloidon" process, and Albumen printing'

While I don't think thats the way forward it does show that if all conventional films and papers disappeared we could still make images

bwfans · Sep 12, 2004

Fuji will be the ideal one. They might improve Ilford films too.

Combining with current Fuji Neopan Acros 100, Neopan 100, 400, 1600, adding Pan-F, FP4, HP5, Delta 100, 400, 3200.

ISO 50: Pan-F
ISO 100: Neopan, Acros, Delta
ISO 125: FP4+
ISO 400: HP5+, Neopan
ISO 1600: Neopan
ISO 3200: Delta

It is a complete product line. Just kill two from Neopan 100/FP4+/Delta/Acros. And get rid of one from HP5+/Neopan 400. The rest will be fine .

Time to Stock up Ilford Film (Pan-F)?

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