Tiltall Tripods

I have some light tripods that are suitable for 35mm cameras, and maybe smaller medium format. I have a monster Zone VI wood tripod suitable for 8x10 cameras. and finally, I have a couple of Bogen 3021 (and 3221) tripods with 3047 three way heads that are perfect for my 4x5 cameras.

I'm setting up a 6x9 monorail view cameras, and the 3021s seem overkill but the light tripods I have are too light and unstable, so I'm looking at something a bit more substantial, but without going overboard. I've read a bit of the Tiltall tripods. Weight wise, they seem appropriate, and they have a built-in 3-way head, plus being reasonably priced, they look like they could be a good choice. The lack of a QR system isn't a problem, I could either adapt one, like the Manfrotto/Bogen hex plates, or I could just leave the monorail clamp attached to the tripod, and just pull the rail out with the standards attached and clamp it on.

I'm posting this thread to try to find some answers to a couple of questions:

1) first, I know this is an old design, 1944 or so. Do more modern tripods have better designs? Ultralight materials aren't that interesting for this application since the weight of the tripod is a selling point. A lighter tripod may be less appropriate. And most of the other conveniences I see on new tripods like positioning the center bar horizontally aren't all that useful in the context. A leveling beneath the head would be nice, but I cant think of anything else.

and

2) there is a long history of this tripod and I've seen different assertions about different eras. Some say the Leitz manufactured ones weren't as well made as the original Marchioni era tripods. Is there any truth to anything like that? and more importantly, I haven't found any comments about the current manufacturer. What is the current quality like? I can buy one new for $190, and I can get a used Marchioni era one in decent shape for about half that. I prefer buying new, and not buying "someone else's problems" when I can, but not if quality has fallen noticeably.

Finally, not really a question, but any other thoughts would be welcome.

It is a nice design on the surface but they are rather fragile.

I had one of the "Star-D" clones. Tripods take a lot of tumbles in the field and the Tiltall developed a lot of dents and bends,the lower section of one of the legs could be pulled out of the upper part. It finally failed irredeemably when the head developed stress cracks. That is a problem with the head design - plenty of sharp details that form "stress risers" where cracks can form. The genuine Tiltalls may have either better alloys or larger machining radii to mitigate the cracking problem.

I have a mess of Gitzos, Manfrottos, Sliks, a Reiss and an old tough-as-nails Flip-Lock. Of the mess, I confess to liking the Sliks as a light go-anywhere tripod.

You might look at a wooden Berlebach with a leveling ball and no tripod head. It may be all the movement you need. If not you can always adjust the legs. They are really nice tripods and have excellent customer service too. I used one with a 4x5 but later bought a Ries for the leg locks. Don't buy a new one. They sell for a lot less used on eBay. They are a lot less than a Ries too.

I don’t really keep up with what gear is currently available but I have had a couple tiltall tripods in the past. The first was with the KS-4 kit I was issued at Ft. Monmouth in 1970. As you can imagine, it had seen a lot of use by many young men learning photography. It was sturdy for the speed graphic and worked flawlessly. The second, I got in the mid 80’s. It was ok for a while but developed a problem with a bushing in one of the legs which I was never able to fix to my satisfaction. It held up ok, it just didn’t lend itself to rapid extension/closing. I like the simple design of them, though. Hope you find something that will work for you.

Try a Gitzo studio lux performance, three leg sections, in aluminum.

This is my main tripod, and it has a small, ball head that I'm very happy to use, as it's simply so simple and has never failed to lock-up tight.

It maybe heaver than you'd like but it solidly built and with some care, will last years without failure.

IMO.
PS; In Aluminum, no carbon.

Over the years I've owned most of the iterations of the Tiltall from the Marchioni Bros. original to a Star-D and been quite happy with all of them. I currently have a black Leitz version sitting in the corner that gets occasional use with my 8x10 Nagaoka. These are well made and with regular maintenance will last a very long time and perform its duties without issue. I think Gary Regester still supports parts for them http://www.tiltallusa.com/category/products/tripods/ . Some of the newer ones have a leg that screws off and can be used for a monopod. He also has some conversions available. BTW, my Tiltall is for sale, I have more than enough tripods and am "thinning the herd"

Please view my Tiltall thread here:

4x5 Norma Leitz Tiltall inspired by Julius Shulman | Photrio.com Photography Forums

8x10 Sinar Norma Julius Shulman Titlall Setup 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

I had a black Tiltall bought around 79. I gave it away around 93 or so. I didn't have any problem with it.

I've got two TIltalls, a Gitzo and a wooden CECO with a ball head. The Tiltalls are the main go-to tripods; I use them for 35, MF and 4x5 cameras. One of them lives in my car so I always have one handy. I like the simplicity of the Tiltall design, but I have found that the metal corrodes inside the legs and makes them difficult to extend. The leg locks can get stiff too. An older one I had wore out the clamping mechanism in the head's tilt function and got floppy: I thought about washers or spacers or something but found I didn't really need three of them, so never attempted a fix. Good, solid tripods if well treated and maintained.

The Gitzo is a bit heavier and a lot more sturdy. Mine has an "R No.3" head that I like a lot. The leg locks had the same problem as the Tiltalls but a little care and cleaning fixed that and they're totally reliable now. Sometimes I take the Gitzo out with a 4x5, but I always use it with a 5x7 camera and sometimes with my View #2, which is very light for an 8x10.

Look at the https://www.indurogear.com/ especially the carbon fiber tripods. There are a number of tripod heads to choose from. The right one for me might not be the one for you. Be mindful of the camera weight when selecting a tripod and the head.

I have all three vintages of Tiltall and they are very good, durable and steady, Perhaps with the exception of the Star-D which has threads that are very shallow and very fine on the leg end caps; easy to cross thread and ruin. The Star-D threads and foot caps are not interchangeable with the earlier models. I bought my Leitz model 60 years ago and it still functions and looks new. I lusted after the silver Marchioni version late in life; its pretty, but otherwise just the same as the black version.
Either the Leitz or the Marchioni are heartily recommended.

The Tiltall legset is about the same size as the Manfrotto / Bogen 3021 legset - same height, and about the same tubing diameters. I expect the 3021 legset is a little heavier due to the large aluminum center casting. Where the 3021 gets heavy is when you put the 3047 pan head on it, because that weighs over 3 lb. The Tiltall pan head (not removable) is much lighter, so the total weight comes in at just over 6 lb. However, if you then stick extras like a QR adapter on it, it's chipping away the weight advantage. I think to realize the weight savings + rigidity of the Tiiltall, it's best to accept the speed compromises (twist leg locks, no QR, no removable head).

I don't have experience with every iteration of Tiltall but think condition is more important than Leitz vs Marchioni or whatever. (Edit: I am happy to buy used tripods because they are often discounted enormously from new, just mean I'd rather have a decent version of any of them than one with stripped threads or damaged collets, etc.)

I've used my Tiltall for a little over a year. I found it at a used camera store, the dealer asking $35, which I strained my wrist getting the cash from my pocket. This one doesn't have a scratch on it, and was only missing the rubber disc on the top. I had some 1/8" black neoprene pads, glued one on with Gorilla Glue, trimmed it with an Exact-o knife, and I was in business. It supports everything nicely up through 4x5, and it's very mobile.

A couple of years back, I started looking for a Vivitar Model 1321. The Tiltall and Vivitar had always been on my "One of these days..." list. The Vivitar is heavier, but very sturdy, so it gets camera time like the Tiltall. My other light(er)weight tripod is an aluminum Manfrotto 055, which has a 3047 head on it.

Not that I'm tripod poor. I also have Bogen/Manfrotto's (475B, 3035, 3051, 3033, MT055XPRO3[CF}) as well as a SLIK Master 67 prototype, and a Gitzo G1320. I just refuse to let anything go, but they all get time in the field. The heavier ones only go when I can stay close to the car.

Sirius Glass said:

Look at the https://www.indurogear.com/ especially the carbon fiber tripods. There are a number of tripod heads to choose from. The right one for me might not be the one for you. Be mindful of the camera weight when selecting a tripod and the head.

Click to expand...

Induro equipment is interchangeable with Manfrotto and Bogen parts. They all seem to use the same standard sizes.

I have had a til tall for 3 decades. It hasn't been used in over a decade, since I prefer a good CF tripod, and CF has become more affordable. However, it is pretty indestructible and can be used as a weapon if needed.

reddesert said:

The Tiltall legset is about the same size as the Manfrotto / Bogen 3021 legset - same height, and about the same tubing diameters. I expect the 3021 legset is a little heavier due to the large aluminum center casting. Where the 3021 gets heavy is when you put the 3047 pan head on it, because that weighs over 3 lb. The Tiltall pan head (not removable) is much lighter, so the total weight comes in at just over 6 lb. However, if you then stick extras like a QR adapter on it, it's chipping away the weight advantage. I think to realize the weight savings + rigidity of the Tiiltall, it's best to accept the speed compromises (twist leg locks, no QR, no removable head).

Click to expand...

Thanks, these are some definitely helpful details. If I get one, I'll definitly be using it as is. Maybe a QR adapter, but my plan would likely be to hard-attach the monorail's tripod block, and leave it connected to the tripod. Then the "quick attach" would be to flop it open, place the monorail, flip closed and lock. I'd want to do that anyway since the tripod mount will usually be between the standards, but sometimes (short lenses) will need to not be between the standards.

All my 3021's have heavy heads on them--two have 3047s and one has a 501 (from when I was a low-budget video producer.) so I think of them as a heavy tripod. Then I tried putting a large 8x10 on one and discovered that the 3047 was way too small for that purpose. Thats why I got a Zone VI which I use without a real head. I just attached a large Manfrotto 15 degree leveling ball and a hex QR plate on top of it. That beast easily holds anything I want, but it is not light.

Some of the other suggestions are interesting. Berlebach I was very interested in when I was looking for something for the 8x10, I'd have to look to see what they have that is appropriately small enough for the 6x9 (kind of the whole point of using a 6x9 monorail over a 4x5 is weight and bulk savings, so I want to make sure that I don't burn what I save by buying too large a tripod.) Gitzo is interesting, and I'll have to look closer at them, but I've always thought of them as very high end (i.e. $2000 tripods), i.e. out of my price range. Another that occurred to me is Linhof. They make some very nice tripods, but its hard to find a good breakdown of their sizes and weights. Their new tripods are in the stratosphere ($3000+) but there are a lot of used sub-$200 tripods from them on eBay.

I have the Leitz and Marchioni versions. Had a Star--D clone in the past. Never a problem except with the Star-D. If you remember your high school physics, you'll appreciate the stability of the round leg. Nothing fancy, just gets the job done.

I've owned and used Marchioni, Leitz, and Star D Tiltalls since 1970. The one problem was a plastic grip on a Star D model that broke in a fall to a hard surface. I can't compare Tiltalls with current tripods because, as in marriage, when one has found something (or someone) so perfect, there should be no reason to try anything (or anyone) else.

I decided for the moment to hold off on the Tiltall. I think part of what appealed to me was the lack of choice. I spent a few hours in the rabbit hole trying to make sense of used Gitzo models, and I still couldn't tell you much, but a Tiltall is a Tiltall is a Tiltall. Well, there is the era of manufacture, but that really it. But, given that I've long owned and loved Bogen/Manfrotto gear, I bought a cheap used 3205 with a 3030 head. We'll try that out for the moment. The 3205 is supposedly a 3001 in black (I know the second digit 2 indicates black, but I'm not sure why the fourth digit changed from 1 to 5.) Even if its not ideal for this use case, it will be useful to have a middleweight tripod for other things.

(I suspect the tripods are like camera bags--you just keep accumulating more, because its hard to know whether either will work until you have it in hand and try to fit your camera and gear in or on it.)

abruzzi said:

I decided for the moment to hold off on the Tiltall. I think part of what appealed to me was the lack of choice. I spent a few hours in the rabbit hole trying to make sense of used Gitzo models, and I still couldn't tell you much, but a Tiltall is a Tiltall is a Tiltall. Well, there is the era of manufacture, but that really it. But, given that I've long owned and loved Bogen/Manfrotto gear, I bought a cheap used 3205 with a 3030 head. We'll try that out for the moment. The 3205 is supposedly a 3001 in black (I know the second digit 2 indicates black, but I'm not sure why the fourth digit changed from 1 to 5.) Even if its not ideal for this use case, it will be useful to have a middleweight tripod for other things.

(I suspect the tripods are like camera bags--you just keep accumulating more, because its hard to know whether either will work until you have it in hand and try to fit your camera and gear in or on it.)

Click to expand...

I find it is easier to trip over tripods than camera bags, although I have gotten quite good at both the last few years.