Thumbs up for Simon

sandermarijn · Aug 8, 2011

Something bizarre happened last week. I opened a (single) packaging of Pan F Plus (120 size) and found an XP2 Super roll inside. Not a problem at all, as I am only an amateur playing around. Also, I had some other film with me for substitute.

With any other manufacturer I would have probably hit a hard wall at getting this packaging glitch (?) across in the first place, but in the case of Ilford, being represented by Mr. Galley, a PM sufficed.

He's going to sort it out (has the numbers) and kindly apologized. More, he asked for my home address Going that road is not my intent, but the above does go to demonstrate Ilford's commitment & communicative strength (as well as the usefulness of APUG of course).

Thumbs up for Simon/Ilford.

Mike Wilde · Aug 8, 2011

I too apreciate the effort Harman does keeping commounications going here.

I also appreciate the perspective of the vendor. Your switched packaging is likely not a one off, but likely the tip of an iceberg of fixes that need to get hunted down, and a QA/QC system that needs some attention as well. Running a tight ship takes eternal vigilance.

All the best to Simon and his crew.

railwayman3 · Aug 8, 2011

Having seen the automated 120 film winding and packaging on a factory tour of Ilford, it seems unlikely that a single film could have got in a wrong box...and their QC would, I'm sure , prevent a whole batch being wrongly packaged!

I wonder if the box might have been interfered with after leaving the factory...I remember being warned of a scam some years ago where people were buying expensive 35mm color films, substituting a wood cylinder for the film, resealing the box, then returning it to the retailer for a refund or exchange under the pretence that they had bought the wrong sort! (Though I can't see the point of switching one film for another..)

sandermarijn · Aug 8, 2011

railwayman3 said:
Having seen the automated 120 film winding and packaging on a factory tour of Ilford, it seems unlikely that a single film could have got in a wrong box...and their QC would, I'm sure , prevent a whole batch being wrongly packaged!)

I usually believe my own eyes, but in this case I asked my (not photographically inclined) companion to double-check the oddity.

Strangely enough (or not, confusion abounds), another single Pan F packaging from the same batch, i.e. identical coding and date, did contain the really right stuff.

Simon R Galley · Aug 9, 2011

Sander was kind enough to let me know about this.

This is a very,very unusual occurance, but I have seen it once before on 35mm we have already checked that no other complaints have been raised regarding this batch, none have, so it may be a one off, but that is not acceptable: We are currently checking our records for the day it was made, which machine, which line, what the manufacturing finishing order was etc .

As the finishing packing line theoretically cannot mis box due to a three step automated bar coding
start up we will let you know what happened.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

railwayman3 · Aug 9, 2011

I think that this is a case for Hercule Poirot......"The Mystery of the Two Films", maybe?

(And all credit to Simon/Harman again for their brilliant customer service...)

hpulley · Aug 9, 2011

Might be dangerous to shoot it. If it isn't really XP2 and you develop PanF+ in C-41 it will come out blank after the bleach and fix steps.

MattKing · Aug 9, 2011

Do you still have the box? Is there any sign of it having been re-glued?

I'd be most suspicious of the retailer.

sandermarijn · Aug 11, 2011

Hey Matt,

No, the carton box didn't seem tempered with. Also, the foil wrapper (that wonderful Ilford-silvery) was definitely original and unopened. 99.999% sure of all that (one can never be entirely sure of anything, can one?).

I got the batch from macodirect.de (15 films). All films out of those 15 that I have opened so far were fine (except that one weirdo XP2).

No bad word about Maco BTW. They just pass the stuff on (and professionally too).

Best, Sander

sandermarijn · Aug 11, 2011

Simon R Galley said:
As the finishing packing line theoretically cannot mis box due to a three step automated bar coding
start up we will let you know what happened.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

I suspected something that error-proof; hence my amazement.

A friend of mine compared the incident to finding a North-Korean spare tyre in one's newly bought Mercedes (I have no affection with cars, just for the record). I think that sums it up pretty well.

Any outsourcing to North-Korea going on Simon?

sandermarijn · Aug 20, 2011

Harman's Sue Evans has sent me a very kind and explanatory note on the issue. She also sent me replacement films.

I am stunned by Ilford's excellent communication and superb service otherwise. Absolutely brilliant.

Thanks to Simon, Sue and Harman!

Simon R Galley · Aug 22, 2011

As Sander has now had his official reply, I can update as promised:

It was our fault : Justified : Reason - Human errror.

During manufacturing changeover of 'grades' ( meaning different types of film stock in all different formats ) a clean down procedure is carried out. This ensures no film or packaging remains from the previous grade before the new film is loaded and the new packaging is introduced. On the 120 line the foiling machine(s) has a 'point of impact' where the foil on either side of an individual film is sealed.

In this case a film must have been left in the impact area. This should have been removed, and checked as per the clean down regime, but it was not. The clean down procedure has been checked, validated and the operators will be reminded, supervisors will also now check 'up the spout'.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology

sandermarijn · Aug 23, 2011

It seems only fair to post some of the photos that I had intended to be recorded on Pan F Plus but which ended up on FP4 Plus instead- probably the more suitable film for the occasion anyway.

Camera was a battered old Rolleiflex 3,5F with light-yellow filter. Location: beach of Schiermonnikoog, small island in the North of Netherlands. Lighting: harsh, mid-day in early August. Developed in XTOL 1+1. Flatbed scans of the negatives.

Yes, the sun did actually shine now and then in the Summer of 2011

BTW, I am still to shoot that rogue XP2 film. It's C41 that's holding me back.

Роберт · Aug 23, 2011

How is it possible that you made some sunny photos in this Summer within the Netherlands.

It's C41 that's holding me back

In fact very simple. You only have to find a solution for the 37,8C developing temperature.
If you have a Jobo processor, it's a piece of cake. And you can mix all kind of C41 films in one development.

brofkand · Aug 24, 2011

You can develop XP2 in B&W Chemistry. Check out the massive dev chart. Stock D-76 is 14min. I'd imagine you'd have to deal with the orange mask (I've never used XP2 so I'm not certain it has a mask), but you can develop it.

MartinP · Aug 24, 2011

XP2 has no orange mask, hence can be easily printed on multigrade papers.

For C41 development the OP can take the film to Hema (a large store in every town in NL and BE). They don't develop 120 on the premises so will send it off to a large lab (in Tilburg I think) who generally seem to be consistent. And develop-only service is very cheap.

Роберт · Aug 24, 2011

XP2 Super will be inferior in quality in B&W chemicals. In C41 it's great for soft portraits and best E.I. is around iso 250.
Very easy to print on (B&W) MG papers and easy for scanning (ICE) too.

sandermarijn · Aug 24, 2011

Thanks Martin, I know about Hema. The thing is rather that I like doing 'everything' myself. My skin is slightly allergic to certain components in the C41 chemistry, which is problematic even with gloves on. So I guess this one film will end up at Hema sooner or later.

Brofkand- using D76 or similar on such good film would feel like a waste, even though the suggestion is welcome.

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