Three roll tanks.. Are they worth the time savings or should i stay with single roll?

cantore · Feb 5, 2012

I have always used generic single roll plastic tanks but now im thinking of using three roll tanks just to save time on cleaning afterwards. I recently bought a Paterson 3 roll tank but what worries me is the time it will take to drain the developer and fill back up with the stop. Am i being paranoid or should i have a concern about uneven development because of the draining and filling times? Thanks!

brucemuir · Feb 5, 2012

If you're using HC110 just use a good dilution that gives you longer times.
I have one of those gargantuan pattersons (4-5 roll) also but haven't used it much.

I'm more worried about inverting the thing and getting good agitation technique with that much developer.
Hope it doesn't leak either but the patterson lids are generally better tham the screw on type which I have a large one of those also.

eddie · Feb 5, 2012

If your fill time, and your drain time, are fairly close, it evens out.

cantore · Feb 5, 2012

What concerns me is that i use Rodinal 1+25 and enjoy the contrast and dont want to lose it by going 1+50 or more. My development times are only 4 minutes so the draining time and filling times will extend the length of time the negatives are in contact with the developer. Also i'm sure the film will not be complete coated with developer after the developer drains so im worried about spotted areas of over development..

brucemuir · Feb 5, 2012

cantore said:
What concerns me is that i use Rodinal 1+25 and enjoy the contrast and dont want to lose it by going 1+50 or more. My development times are only 4 minutes so the draining time and filling times will extend the length of time the negatives are in contact with the developer. Also i'm sure the film will not be complete coated with developer after the developer drains so im worried about spotted areas of over development..

4 minutes would concern me even in a small tank.
I'm glad you're getting good results with the smaller tank.

I guess you could test with the larger system but I'm not real optimistic.

MattKing · Feb 5, 2012

The Paterson 3 roll tanks have the added advantage of being the right size for 2 rolls of 120, so I highly recommend them.

They fill and empty in just about the same amount of time as my single steel-reel tanks (quickly!) so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Just be consistent in how you deal with them.

Rick A · Feb 5, 2012

cantore said:
What concerns me is that i use Rodinal 1+25 and enjoy the contrast and dont want to lose it by going 1+50 or more. My development times are only 4 minutes so the draining time and filling times will extend the length of time the negatives are in contact with the developer. Also i'm sure the film will not be complete coated with developer after the developer drains so im worried about spotted areas of over development..

Times shorter than 5 minutes runs the risk of uneven development, I for one would never chance that. Why rush any portion of the process.

Ian Grant · Feb 5, 2012

I've been using the 3 roll tanks for many years (close to 40)with no problems even with C41 or E6, they only use a litre of chemistry and they are quick to fill nad empty.

I also use the larger tanks occasionally and again haven't had a problem, I like to be able to process 3 rolls of 120 in one tank.

Ian

MattKing · Feb 5, 2012

Ian makes a very good point. If Paterson 3 roll tanks work well with the 3:15 times needed for C-41, then 4 minute times are certainly doable.

Short times do require good, repeatable technique though.

cantore · Feb 5, 2012

I definitely dont want to risk anything and wind up with uneven development so i will try the 2 reels with the top third reel being empty so i proper flow while inverting the tank. Rick.. I have been using Rodinal 1+25 with the 4 minute developing time for several years and have never had a single roll with uneven development. Thank you to everyone for the great advice. I appreciate it very much!

K-G · Feb 5, 2012

I have used the Paterson 5 roll tanks ( 3 rolls for 120 ) for over thirty years without problem. Especially the later type with the wide top with bayonet lock is very convenient and easy to use. The filling and emptying is much more easy and rapid than with the old design with the screw on top. If you are just consistent with the timing, start when you start filling and stop when you start emptying or start when you finish filling and stop when you finish emptying, then you shouldn't have any problem.
The only thing that can cause some stress is if the rubber lid doesn't go on leakproof at once. But on the other hand, that is independent of tank size.

Karl-Gustaf

clayne · Feb 5, 2012

cantore said:
I definitely dont want to risk anything and wind up with uneven development so i will try the 2 reels with the top third reel being empty so i proper flow while inverting the tank. Rick.. I have been using Rodinal 1+25 with the 4 minute developing time for several years and have never had a single roll with uneven development. Thank you to everyone for the great advice. I appreciate it very much!

BTW: If you're just getting into printing, you'll be soon having some second thoughts about "I like contrast." What you're going to find is that negatives that look contrasty end up being a pain in the ass to print without screwing around with filters, etc. to bring it back in line. Printing will add contrast - so try to target a balanced negative that isn't "hot."

brucemuir · Feb 5, 2012

MattKing said:
Ian makes a very good point. If Paterson 3 roll tanks work well with the 3:15 times needed for C-41, then 4 minute times are certainly doable.

Short times do require good, repeatable technique though.

I'm betting the infusion for developer is quite different between C41 and b&w emulsions.

I hate to disagree with you Matt but Kodak recommends 5 minutes at the short end for b/w.

TriXfan · Feb 5, 2012

I am not familiar with plastic tanks, as I only use the stainless steel Nikkor.
There is also this possibility:
The most precise timing & fastest immersion is by filling the open tank with developer,
then turning off the lights and just dropping the reels into it & then putting on the top.
Of course this only works if you have a totally blacked out dark room.

MattKing · Feb 5, 2012

brucemuir said:
I'm betting the infusion for developer is quite different between C41 and b&w emulsions.

I hate to disagree with you Matt but Kodak recommends 5 minutes at the short end for b/w.

Bruce:

It is interesting how Kodak words it.

If you review their development charts, they have specific entries marked "NR" for "Not Recommended".

And then they have other entries where they give times that are less than 5 minutes, which are invariably accompanied by an asterisk, which refers to a note that says: "Development times shorter than 5 minutes may produce unsatisfactory results." (my emphasis added)

I take that to mean that if you are using short development times, you have to have excellent, repeatable technique in order to get satisfactory results.

But that approach certainly is open to argument.

It would be interesting to hear from PE whether or not there differences between diffusion rates.

brucemuir · Feb 5, 2012

MattKing said:
It would be interesting to hear from PE whether or not there differences between diffusion rates.

Yea, I was hoping he'd see this and chime in but I know how busy he is.

Anyway, I admit I've used 4:30 minutes with HC110 at one of the dilutions (forget with one 1:32 maybe).
I've actually never had any problems that I could notice but in general I won't go under 5 minutes if at all possible.

cantore · Feb 5, 2012

clayne said:
BTW: If you're just getting into printing, you'll be soon having some second thoughts about "I like contrast." What you're going to find is that negatives that look contrasty end up being a pain in the ass to print without screwing around with filters, etc. to bring it back in line. Printing will add contrast - so try to target a balanced negative that isn't "hot."

I have worried about that also but until now i havent any issues yet. I recently started to try split-grade printing using the 0 & 5 filters and think i will stick with that method. I pretty much only shoot Adox film and print on Ilford MG VC paper and enjoyed my prints printed with no filter. Im an amateur with the printing process and want to learn all i can. Actually i think im addicted to it!

cantore · Feb 5, 2012

I have read several comments about my 4 minute developing not being good enough but also Kodak was the reference mentioned. I dont know if this matters but i shoot Adox film (CHS ART 25).

Leigh Youdale · Feb 6, 2012

Yep, you're being paranoid! But the 4 minute development time you mention is a bit of a concern. You don't state what temperature you're using though. Is it 24 or 25 deg C?

You needn't change your 1+25 Rodinal mix - just lower your process temperatures by a few degrees to 20C, or if that's where you are at present then go back to 18C and increase the time accordingly.

I use single and three reel Paterson tanks without a problem but I use Rodinal at 1+50 and 20C and it takes quite a bit longer than you're using.

Wade D · Feb 6, 2012

I'm using a new paterson 3 reel tank. The fill and empty rates are quite fast. It replaced an old vivitar 4 reel tank that finally cracked after 35 years which also had a fast fill/empty rate. I start my timer when I finish filling the tank and empty the developer about 20 seconds prior to the end of the time period. That leaves plenty of time to pour in the water or stop bath and agitate to stop development.

ooze · Feb 6, 2012

One recommendation: before using the larger tank, make sure that the containers you use to mix the chemicals are large enough to hold the new amount of liquid.

Otherwise, I don't think there is anything to worry about drain/fill times etc.

Cheers

Three roll tanks.. Are they worth the time savings or should i stay with single roll?

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Three roll tanks.. Are they worth the time savings or should i stay with single roll?

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