Thread and Poll Regarding: Film Preference/What Film Do You Use

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

Hi Everyone,

I am running a Thread and Poll Regarding: Film Preference/What Film Do You Use.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I am running this so that the community really has a better understanding of itself and what kinds of media we as photographers use to take our images. I believe that this information will prove very valuable to the community here at APUG, Sean, and the Moderators.

So far the Poll only has 58 responses. It would be most helpful if the community would really log in and respond and not just view the Poll and the thread. With over 534 views there should be a lot more than the 58 entries in the poll. Additionally, with a community of now over 14,000, I would hope that the number of responses to at least be in the hundreds.

Thanks very much for your assistance and participation.

Rich

donbga · Jul 17, 2006

naturephoto1 said:
Hi Everyone,
It would be most helpful if the community would really log in and respond and not just view the Poll and the thread. With over 534 views there should be a lot more than the 58 entries in the poll. Additionally, with a community of now over 14,000, I would hope that the number of responses to at least be in the hundreds.

Rich

Rich,

It's my feeling that the 14000 number doesn't really represent the hardcore APUG population. The population of APUG users - members that actually use film on a regular basis is probably quite a bit smaller than 14000.

Also I think a lot of people just dislike polls/

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

Hi Don,

I am quite aware that the 14,000 membership is certainly not a good representation of the active participating membership. We undoubtedly have several hundred that actively participate and I would guess that the bulk of the participation is from tens of people to maybe a hundred or hundred and fifty or so. Additionally, I see names and avatars every so often from members periodically. When we look at the front page of APUG we frequently have 100 to 200 members at least reading through the threads. I am hoping though that we can get at least a reasonable sampling of information from those that are active participants as well as those that at least are reading the posts.

Rich

donbga · Jul 17, 2006

naturephoto1 said:
Hi Don,

I am hoping though that we can get at least a reasonable sampling of information from those that are active participants as well as those that at least are reading the posts.

Rich

Good luck, but I wouldn't count on it.

rogueish · Jul 17, 2006

Posting on a Sunday then expecting everyone to participate by Monday moring is a bit of a stretch. I don't normally get to visit here on weekends, and I'm sure thats the case for many people.
Cottage time, kids out of school, that kind of thing.

Wait a few days, then ask for a larger response.

Oh, and I just voted myself.

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

rogueish said:
Posting on a Sunday then expecting everyone to participate by Monday moring is a bit of a stretch. I don't normally get to visit here on weekends, and I'm sure thats the case for many people.
Cottage time, kids out of school, that kind of thing.

Wait a few days, then ask for a larger response.

Oh, and I just voted myself.

Hi Rogueish,

Actually, this Poll and Thread were initially posted on Saturday and was lost in the Server transfer. I do not expect anything as to the time frame for the poll and thread to run. As a result, there is no closing date set for the Poll. I hope that it runs long enough so we get sufficient numbers of votes so that the data is at least somewhat meaningful. When the numbers are so low, a couple of votes here or there can have a tremendous affect on the results.

By the way thanks for voting. Much appreciated.

Rich

George Papantoniou · Jul 17, 2006

Send an Email or PM to every member of APUG asking them nicely to answer the question.

BTW, why do you think it would be useful to know whether APUG members use this or that film ? This would interest the sponsors that sell (or fabricate) film, only. On the other hand, there is no doubt the members of this community DO USE FILM. Why would they care which kind of film it is ?

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

Hi George,

There are a number of reasons why this information is of value. For instance to start with I was under the impression as were many others that the bulk of the membership only used B&W film because most of the discussions were about B&W. I (we) knew that the color only membership was a small minority and so far this seems to be what the poll is suggesting: that being about 10%. I had (and I think that few had an idea however) that a large part of the B&W shooters also used color film in one or more forms. This kind of information can be useful in discussions as well as fine tuning additional polls (if deemed necessary) for discussion groups, needs of the community, etc. I am also thinking about at least one or two additional polls for the future.

By the way, like many others here I am trained as a scientist, we also have engineers, computer programmers and analysts, etc. Using numbers and statistics are somewhat second nature to some of us.

Rich

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

Hi Everyone,

I am just trying to remind those that have not checked in and participated in the Thread and Poll: Film Preference/What Film Do You Use to please do so. I would like to try to collect as much data as we can to get a better idea of film usage at APUG. Presently there have only been 107 that have checked in to the poll. I know there are more than 107 of us here that use film. Here is the link to the thread and the poll:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Thanks for your participation.

Rich

donbga · Jul 17, 2006

naturephoto1 said:
Hi Everyone,

I would like to try to collect as much data as we can to get a better idea of film usage at APUG.

Rich

I have to ask why you really want to know this. How will this information help the APUG community?

So far you have been quite vague about that.

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

donbga said:
I have to ask why you really want to know this. How will this information help the APUG community?

So far you have been quite vague about that.

Don,

It certainly isn't only for me. We are a community of photographers all shooting film and all facing the problems in the change in the photo industry. We as film photographers are all in this together. We all have our own perceptions and approaches to photography as well as so much else in our lives. I am relatively new here. But, after participating in discussions and in the Gallery for the last 4 months, I would like to know more about the other members of the community. Most of the participants, it seems use primarily B&W. And we know that the color only shooters are a minority. Part of what I am trying to discover are there additionally a large portion of the community that also use color though it is not the main portion of their preferred photo medium.

The initial observations are very surprising at least to me. Though the single largest group of members certainly are B&W photographers, it has become quite evident that a large number of the B&W photographers also use some degree of color photography in their lives.

Any of the data that I will compile will be available to anyone else here at APUG and in particular Sean and the moderators. I have absolutely no intension to use the data outside of this community and certainly have no interest in supplying this data to any maker of camera or film.

Rich

Gim · Jul 17, 2006

Maybe you should have people use percentages of each type of film used. I shoot 1 roll of color negative film for every 200 B/W. I guess that would make me a B/W and color neg. user.
Jim

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

Gim said:
Maybe you should have people use percentages of each type of film used. I shoot 1 roll of color negative film for every 200 B/W. I guess that would make me a B/W and color neg. user.
Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the suggestion, but as I mentioned in the other thread, we can only have up to 10 possible responses in any poll here at APUG. If other members of the community that shoot in B&W and color would like to participate in a Poll that deals with a breakdown like that we can at a future date. This is just a preliminary Poll to get some idea of people using B&W only, color only, or a combination of both in their lives.

Rich

jim appleyard · Jul 17, 2006

I'll answer your question: APX 25, Pan-F +, APX 100, FP-4, Tri-x, APX 400, K-25, K-64, Portra 160 & Portra 400, although not all at the same time.

copake_ham · Jul 17, 2006

naturephoto1 said:
[SNIP].....By the way, like many others here I am trained as a scientist, we also have engineers, computer programmers and analysts, etc. Using numbers and statistics are somewhat second nature to some of us.

Rich

Rich,

But surely, as a scientist, you realize then that "self-selected" polls have no real statistical validity? You can only begin to obtain meaningful data via a random poll with a sampling size that meets your "acceptable margin of error" based on statistical methods.

Aren't these kinds of "polls" more like what you see on CNN or those "popularity-based" trash TV shows?

Ray Heath · Jul 17, 2006

sorry i still don't see what good this 'poll' will do
currently i shoot what i can get
i suspect a lot of poll answerers will answer what shows them in a 'good/interesting' light, who's gonna admit to using some cheap and nasty stuff cause that's all they can get and/or afford
and how can i see the results of the poll

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

Hi George,

Unfortunately, I am unable to ge a random sampling. I was hoping to get a large number or a relatively large sample so that I could get a better appreciation for and understanding of the number or approximate percentage of photographers that incorporated color in at least some of the work that they did. I certainly do not expect that this is of tremendous accuracy, but it may well give a clue as to some of the interest of the photographers here at APUG. I have to say at least looking at the results of the poll thus far, I am seeing even a smaller percentage of color only photographers than I anticipated. I am also observing a much higher percentage of the B&W photographers that do some color work during the course of their life than I had expected. Additionally, I believe that at least on a general basis, I may be able to at least make some general comments as to a general preference of the kind of color material that is being used by these photographers.

Rich

naturephoto1 · Jul 17, 2006

Hi Ray,

I am only going to look at the poll distribution with a few specific outlying mistakes as a result of the available selections. I believe that there is/and will be some valuable information even if it is only a generality if I can not get a sufficient number of respondents. So basically the results are going to identify approximately what percentage are B&W only and color only photographers and an approximation of photographers the shoot a combination of B&W and color and possibly break this distribution down to some degree.

Rich

George Papantoniou · Jul 18, 2006

I am sorry if I'm speculating here Rich, but this is how I see things:

You've started a poll without any serious reason (you just thought it might be interesting) - which is not a bad thing or anything, so don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to blame you - and you thought that the results might be of some use to the Forum's owners (which might be a miscalculation, for if Sean needed this info I am sure he would already have asked for it).

When some users (including me) have started doubting the value of the information you wanted to gather, you started to act defensively in order to justify your initial decision to start the poll.

So, finally we might end up quarelling (or at least, making a big fuss about an unimportant situation) about whether this poll is really needed or not...

I think it's no use discussing any more about it, and we should all just let whoever wants to participate do it and that's that... after all, we all have the freedom of choice, don't we ?

I personally won't participate for the time being, and the reason is because I don't think this information can really be useful to the owner and moderators of APUG (unless they convince me of the contrary themselves).

m_liddell · Jul 18, 2006

Why not just compare number of posts in the b&w forums against the colour forums?

Ole · Jul 18, 2006

m_liddell said:
Why not just compare number of posts in the b&w forums against the colour forums?

Because colour is inherently less "debatable" than B&W. There are two main developing processes, E6 and C41. Both have a certain "flexibility", but can be simplified to "either it works, or it doesn't".

B&W has a bewildering and ever-increasing number of different developers, stop baths, fixers, toners, washers, driers, and whatnot. They all have their (sometimes very specific) uses, strengths and weaknesses. Most of them are also fairly easy to mix from raw chemicals, which adds yet another level of complexity a hundreds of non-chemists start mixing powders and sometimes gets it so wrong that it turns out spectacularly right again...

What I'm trying to say is that the number of posts in the respective forums cannot be used to infer anything but the relative mount of debate in those forums.

I think the poll is a good idea, almost good enough that I wish I had thought of it. (OK George, here's your moderator's statement!)

noseoil · Jul 18, 2006

I've reported this thread to the A.C.L.U. and am asking for an investigation into film profiling. It seems there are some amoung us here who are trying to screen based of a film preference, clearly a violation of the rights of photographers everywhere. I think with a bit of luck and money, this case should show up in the Supreme Court in the next 30 years or so, and we will all be vindicated in our choices of film use. My lawyer (B.F.H-baum) will be contacting the thread's author. Sincerely, tim

naturephoto1 · Jul 18, 2006

noseoil said:
I've reported this thread to the A.C.L.U. and am asking for an investigation into film profiling. It seems there are some amoung us here who are trying to screen based of a film preference, clearly a violation of the rights of photographers everywhere. I think with a bit of luck and money, this case should show up in the Supreme Court in the next 30 years or so, and we will all be vindicated in our choices of film use. My lawyer (B.F.H-baum) will be contacting the thread's author. Sincerely, tim

Hi Tim,

You forgot the smiley face.

Rich

naturephoto1 · Jul 18, 2006

m_liddell said:
Why not just compare number of posts in the b&w forums against the colour forums?

In addition to the comments made by Ole, many of the B&W shooters that use color to some degree in their lives may not even discuss or have any questions or participation in the Color forums. To many of these photographers, some of the color work is just for family or personal snapshots.

The way that the poll was set-up the identity of the individual can not be IDed- a blind test. In addition, at least for this initial Poll I was only trying to get an idea as to whether people were using a mix of B&W and color in their work and lives. There is no way to know in this Poll who is primarily a B&W or a color Photographer that supplements his work with the other medium (ia). If that is something that the participants would like to know, that can be addressed in a subsequent poll.

So as I have indicated the Poll was set up as a generalized way of trying to get some idea and estimate of people and/or percentage of people using B&W only, color only, or some combination of the 2 media.

Rich

naturephoto1 · Jul 18, 2006

Hi George,

If I came across as defensive to any of the questions, that certainly was not my intent. I was just trying to answer the questions in perhaps too as a matter of fact way.

When I proposed doing the poll with Robert Teague, I proposed the poll just to get some idea as to the general make-up of the photographers here at APUG and to get a better handle on who shot B&W and who shot color. I thought that it was going to be much more cut and dry. I did break the poll up to try to get an additional idea of those that shot in both B&W and color. But, I made no attempt in trying to differentiate those that worked more in B&W from those that worked more in Color.

I really was and am still of the opinion that this data though only preliminary and only an estimate is of value to the community, Sean and the moderators. People will have a better idea of who we are. I also suspect that no one here, Sean or anyone else ever had a second thought about conducting this kind of question or poll. I only think that this idea struck a chord with me is because I am a color only photographer who without doubt is in the vast minority of photographers here at APUG. As a result, I wanted to honestly get a much better idea of the majority of photographers as well as the color photographers that participate at APUG.

Rich

Thread and Poll Regarding: Film Preference/What Film Do You Use

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency