Thoughts on using a monorail for outside work...

macmaster77 · Jul 25, 2016

I'm new to LF and looking to purchase a 8x10. The reason why I would like an 8x10 over a 4x5 is that I want to print photos up to 44X90. I'm lucky enough to have a printer that can do this. I have a chance to get a TOYO-VIEW 810GB 8x10 View Camera for $1700 mint. This is a monorail and I have heard folks say that these monorails don't do well outside due to there weight. Frankly, I can't afford some of the field cameras that are $2,500+. Any advise on using this for taking on the road would be great. Thanks...

Spencer

Paul Howell · Jul 25, 2016

Depends, if by outside you mean within a yards of your car to truck, maybe, to backpack, that would take some doing. Although not an 8X10 I do have a rather bulky NewView 4X5 which I can use as long I am not far from my SUV, but for hiking I use a Crown Graphic. How does it break down?

macmaster77 · Jul 25, 2016

I just sent an email to the owner to ask. I looked at other posts and it sounds like the standards, bellows come off the rail. Technically I think it could be put into a backpack, in pieces. Would be a pain to set up for each shot though.

removed account4 · Jul 25, 2016

hi spencer
one person's " that is really heavy " is another person's " meh, it isnt' that bad "
if you are patient and have $$ you might be able to find a folding view camera that
is 8x10. they typically fold up into a small package, are lighter and don't cost 2.5 thousand dollars.
i don't backpack with a camera or worry about weight too much, i don't travel far from my vehicle
so please take my suggetion with a grain of salt.

good luck !
john

macmaster77 · Jul 25, 2016

jnanian said:
hi spencer
one person's " that is really heavy " is another person's " meh, it isnt' that bad "
if you are patient and have $$ you might be able to find a folding view camera that
is 8x10. they typically fold up into a small package, are lighter and don't cost 2.5 thousand dollars.
i don't backpack with a camera or worry about weight too much, i don't travel far from my vehicle
so please take my suggetion with a grain of salt.

good luck !
john

Thanks for the info! I'm built bigger than most folks and 39, so I should be able to carry this around. I contacted the owner and he suggested I get a aluminum box for it. For the work I have in mind, I can't see walking miles with it. Thanks again for your input!

Paul Howell · Jul 25, 2016

You might find an old military canvas duffel bag big enough to fit it without taking it apart. Then a rather heavy tripod sturdy enough to carry the weight, one or two negative holders, a few filters, just one lens, meter, fit into a smaller chest pack, water, a lot to haul around. If you lived in the west I would suggest a pack mule.

pdeeh · Jul 25, 2016

I'd be amazed if you can't find a reasonably light and portable 8x10 field camera for a budget of $1700, especially as you are in the US ... in fact you ought to be able to find one for half that, buy a big strong very light CF tripod and still have lots of spare cash for fillum ...
Harder work to do all that elsewhere, but you're in the right place.

Andre Noble · Jul 25, 2016

Believe me, this 8x10 monorail is going to be a joy to use out of a car or truck for cityscape, architecture, landscape, once you have a transport case such as the Tenbas or large backpack where you can store the monorail intact. Even short hikes will be good. I had a great time shooting these with a 4x5 monorail

For long nature hiking, better to use a 4x5 field or 6x7. That's just my guess.

bdial · Jul 25, 2016

Even a light camera will still need a collection of not-necessarily-light other stuff, principally a sturdy tripod, but holders, lenses, dark cloth, meter, contained in one or more sturdy cases of one sort or another.
Unless you will be backpacking or moving the camera often and over distances, the weight of the camera is not the biggest problem.
Some of the older wooden cameras, like Koronas and Kodaks are available for considerably less than your budget, if their limited movements aren't a problem for your project. If you need movements then the monorails also tend to be cheaper than field cameras and offer more adjustability than you can actually use. Another relatively inexpensive 8x10 with full movements is the Calumet C-1, sometimes known as the "Green Monster", these are all metal, and even though they they are made of light metals (either magnesium or aluminum), there is a lot of it, but you could probably buy 4 of them and not exceed your budget.

Alan Gales · Jul 25, 2016

It all depends like mentioned earlier.

Back when I was younger and worked construction, carrying an 8x10 Toyo monorail wouldn't have been a problem. Today with my bad back I would have trouble just mounting it to a tripod.

I picked up a used 8x10 Wehman field camera a few years ago for $1,500. They don't come up for sale often though. You could also keep your eye out for a Wista, Kodak Master, Tachihara or Deardorff. Just be patient if you want a field camera.

If you have not done so all ready then join Large Format Photography Forum. After being a member for 30 days you can access their for sale section. Even if you buy the Toyo you will still want lenses, film holders, etc. for it.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/

Click onto the LF Home Page for a wealth of free information.

Eric Rose · Jul 25, 2016

I use a 4x5 monorail in the field all the time. I got rid of my Linhof Tk4 a few years ago and went back to my Cambo monorail. Love all the movements!

removed account4 · Jul 25, 2016

macmaster77 said:
I want to print photos up to 44X90. I'm lucky enough to have a printer that can do this.

is your printer making prints the traditional way ?
there are cameras here in the apug classifides that are WHOLE PLATE that are much smaller
than 8x10 that i am guessing will be able to be enlarged that large. and if your printer is enlarging things
the "modern way we can't really talk about here on apug but on dpug instead" you can easily enlarge a 4x5 negative
to be that big. don't underestimate the power of film.

good luck !
john

DREW WILEY · Jul 25, 2016

Monorail vs flatbed has little to do with it. Overall weight and bulk does. Just depends what else you're carrying. I backpacked in the mountains for
thirty years with a Sinar monorail system, along with any other necessary camping and climbing gear. Now that I'm no longer a teenager in my 50's, and a lot closer to my 70's, I still often dayhike with a 4x5 Sinar Norma. But my 8x10 is a Phillips folder. Nowadays Chamonix makes a similar lightweight 8x10. The Toyo 8x10 is fairly heavy but otherwise a well-made machine. It will function fine outdoors if you can tote it. For any of these, you'll need a serious tripod and serious routine physical conditioning, unless you're just shooting near the car. Making big prints is a far more involved subject than just a big piece of film. There is a lot of technique to first learn, and of course there is the topic of lenses.

Maris · Jul 25, 2016

Years ago I used to carry a Plaubel Profia 8x10 monorail for wilderness photography. The camera mounted on its tripod would be balanced on my shoulder with a folded focussing cloth serving as a shoulder pad. When one shoulder got a bit tired I'd swap to the other one. Putting the camera down involved spreading the tripod legs and just placing the assembly where it wouldn't fall over. For overnight camping the camera + tripod would be left outside with a garbage bag over it to keep rain etc off. The weight wasn't the main concern, rather the vulnerability of the bellows when pushing through thick brush was a worry.

CropDusterMan · Jul 25, 2016

Go for it. I took an 8x10 Sinar P2 8x10 to Nepal and hiked 3/4 of the way to Everest base-cap with it.
You can remove the standards and actually packed them pretty small...today, there are many back-pack
options you can go with that allow customization of pads and dividers. The heavy weight is the lenses and
of course a tripod, but if you aren't scared of the price tag, a decent carbon one will be great.

macmaster77 · Jul 26, 2016

Paul Howell said:
You might find an old military canvas duffel bag big enough to fit it without taking it apart. Then a rather heavy tripod sturdy enough to carry the weight, one or two negative holders, a few filters, just one lens, meter, fit into a smaller chest pack, water, a lot to haul around. If you lived in the west I would suggest a pack mule.

That's a great idea, a mule should come standard with these! I'm based in Florida so I do have a beach cart I could put everything in and that would make it easier. At least for getting the seascape photos.

macmaster77 · Jul 26, 2016

Andre Noble said:
Believe me, this 8x10 monorail is going to be a joy to use out of a car or truck for cityscape, architecture, landscape, once you have a transport case such as the Tenbas or large backpack where you can store the monorail intact. Even short hikes will be good. I had a great time shooting these with a 4x5 monorail

For long nature hiking, better to use a 4x5 field or 6x7. That's just my guess.

Thanks for responding! First, great gallery! I think you and I are on the same wavelength. I do like to photograph old buildings or things falling apart. I could see where the monorail for buildings would make it easier to get them straight. Thanks!

macmaster77 · Jul 26, 2016

bdial said:
Even a light camera will still need a collection of not-necessarily-light other stuff, principally a sturdy tripod, but holders, lenses, dark cloth, meter, contained in one or more sturdy cases of one sort or another.
Unless you will be backpacking or moving the camera often and over distances, the weight of the camera is not the biggest problem.
Some of the older wooden cameras, like Koronas and Kodaks are available for considerably less than your budget, if their limited movements aren't a problem for your project. If you need movements then the monorails also tend to be cheaper than field cameras and offer more adjustability than you can actually use. Another relatively inexpensive 8x10 with full movements is the Calumet C-1, sometimes known as the "Green Monster", these are all metal, and even though they they are made of light metals (either magnesium or aluminum), there is a lot of it, but you could probably buy 4 of them and not exceed your budget.

Wow, that is a great idea, thanks for the suggestion. eBay does have a C1 with a lens for $1,295 right now. That might be a great option. Thanks!

macmaster77 · Jul 26, 2016

Eric Rose said:
I use a 4x5 monorail in the field all the time. I got rid of my Linhof Tk4 a few years ago and went back to my Cambo monorail. Love all the movements!

Thanks! Sounds like these are used in the field and I'm not so nuts for considering it...

macmaster77 · Jul 26, 2016

Maris said:
Years ago I used to carry a Plaubel Profia 8x10 monorail for wilderness photography. The camera mounted on its tripod would be balanced on my shoulder with a folded focussing cloth serving as a shoulder pad. When one shoulder got a bit tired I'd swap to the other one. Putting the camera down involved spreading the tripod legs and just placing the assembly where it wouldn't fall over. For overnight camping the camera + tripod would be left outside with a garbage bag over it to keep rain etc off. The weight wasn't the main concern, rather the vulnerability of the bellows when pushing through thick brush was a worry.

Glad to see that someone else has given this a go. I appreciate it!

macmaster77 · Jul 26, 2016

CropDusterMan said:
Go for it. I took an 8x10 Sinar P2 8x10 to Nepal and hiked 3/4 of the way to Everest base-cap with it.
You can remove the standards and actually packed them pretty small...today, there are many back-pack
options you can go with that allow customization of pads and dividers. The heavy weight is the lenses and
of course a tripod, but if you aren't scared of the price tag, a decent carbon one will be great.

That makes sense to shave weight on the tripod. I have a heavy duty tripod right now that when my students use it they comment on how heavy it is. However, in the wind, mine doesn't fall over like the $50 do!

Peter Schrager · Jul 26, 2016

I've used them both..it aint the camera it's about you and your commitment to the craft
A ford and Porsche both get you to the supermarket. .right? ??
My 2cents...buy a Ritter...not some 50 year old camera that no one wants to fix...Richard give great service..not fast..great... buy a chamonix and it's going to Richard for repair regardless ...is it going back to china??,...you can talk to him on the phone too. I had a very well known 8x10 by another maker here in the states and it sucked...did nothing right and everything
wrong. ..so try and buy once

macmaster77 · Jul 26, 2016

I have a chance to get a Zone VI for trade,

Peter Schrager said:
I've used them both..it aint the camera it's about you and your commitment to the craft
A ford and Porsche both get you to the supermarket. .right? ??
My 2cents...buy a Ritter...not some 50 year old camera that no one wants to fix...Richard give great service..not fast..great... buy a chamonix and it's going to Richard for repair regardless ...is it going back to china??,...you can talk to him on the phone too. I had a very well known 8x10 by another maker here in the states and it sucked...did nothing right and everything
wrong. ..so try and buy once

I appreciate the input. I agree to buy for life. I ran into someone who has a Zone VI for sale. I have heard great things about these. I looked at the Ritter, looks like it would be about $4,000. Slightly out of my price range. Thanks!

Mick Fagan · Jul 26, 2016

The Toyo G and GII range of mono rail cameras, which is essentially the same camera, encompasses one actual body, with different sized backs and bellows.

The 45G monorail that I have, is the smallest of the three. By changing the rear standard with either the 5x7 or 8x10 rear standard, and appropriate bellows, I have a completely different, but completely same camera. A very modular system camera.

It is an excellent camera, in another life in a professional studio 25-30 years ago I was using one of these weekly, either the 4x5 or the 8x10, we also had a 5x7 back somewhere, but I don’t ever remember it ever being used.

If you did pick up this mint Toyo 810G, then you will have an extremely versatile piece of equipment that should effectively see you out, and I mean that literally.

Just one small thing, the base Toyo 810G II camera, weighs about 9kg, without any lens, film holders, light meter or tripod. Add those and you’ll probably be looking at carrying around 25kg at a minimum, it is certainly very doable.

Mick.

removed account4 · Jul 26, 2016

macmaster77 said:
Zone VI for trade

macmaster77 said:
I looked at the Ritter

i believe mr ritter was very involved with the design and manufacturer of the zone vi cameras ...
===
thats a lot of $$$ for a green monster. but then again it has a lens which can and often does cost
more than the camera...

good luck !
john

Thoughts on using a monorail for outside work...

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