Thoughts on designs for a 300mm, 6x6 point-and-shoot, set around hyperfocal

Terence · Jun 16, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Glad your child is well. The Hasselblad will be the last camera you will by. You will find yourself turning your nose up at anything else.

I still have Hassie gear, including a new-in-box one, and an SWC/M. Unfortunately I did have a bag full of about half my stuff with an older friend who died during the COVID lockdown. His sister cleared out his place. We didn't hear he passed until a couple months later when we went to check on him. His landlord didn't have a contact for the sister, and none of us knew his family. I had lent him two bodies, a 60mm, 80mm, 150mm with hoods, 4 backs, a couple finders, and a big Domke bag. He was a construction progress photographer I knew from work, and was forced into retirement, so I had lent him gear so he could freelance some stuff. I had lent him some digital stuff too, but nothing I really miss.

Helge · Jun 16, 2023

Terence said:
Despite the hiatus in film photography, I've been doing photography for 30+ years, from 35mm to 8x20. Some of my best shots are with equipment that some people would have thrown away. The best camera is the one you have with you when you find a shot. Well planned photos are great, but the great lighting doesn't always happen on your day off. That's why I'm looking to make something for the shots I keep missing. I usually have a Rolllecord V in my work bag, but it just doesn't reach out far enough. I have a TeleRollei, but it's like carrying a brick, and would never carry it all day going from jobsite to jobsite, and is still short of the focal length I want.

The platitude that “The best camera is the one you have with you” is just as much crap as saying that the best light you get is that which happens to be at the location when you arrive.

Getting optimal and interesting light sometimes requires jumping through hoops. At other times just pure dogged patience.
Again it’s hard work. If it was easy everyone would do it, and the photos wouldn’t be special.

Anyhow, you’ll need a way of framing your shot and you’ll need stabilization of some sort for a long lens.

Terence · Jun 16, 2023

Helge said:
The platitude that “The best camera is the one you have with you” is just as much crap as saying that the best light you get is that which happens to be at the location when you arrive.

Getting optimal and interesting light sometimes requires jumping through hoops. At other times just pure dogged patience.
Again it’s hard work. If it was easy everyone would do it, and the photos wouldn’t be special.

Anyhow, you’ll need a way of framing your shot and you’ll need stabilization of some sort for a long lens.

If I had all the time in the world to dedicate to photography that would be great. Or even the time I had before kids. Now I have the time while I'm running betwen projects. I see the shots I'm missing, and have formulated roughly what I need to capture them. I well understand the basics of photography. There is a reason I came up with the rough specifications I have.

Dan Fromm · Jun 17, 2023

Since no one has mentioned it, aiming the lens to get the desired composition will be difficult. OP, how do you intend to do that?

Terence · Jun 17, 2023

Dan Fromm said:
Since no one has mentioned it, aiming the lens to get the desired composition will be difficult. OP, how do you intend to do that?

Same as the old folders. Two offset frames or a rectangular tube. Adjust them to match when a groundglass placed at the film plane . Close enought for government work.

Dan Fromm · Jun 17, 2023

Terence said:
Same as the old folders. Two offset frames or a rectangular tube. Adjust them to match when a groundglass placed at the film plane . Close enought for government work.

Thanks for explaining. I don't see it. My Graphics have something similar. Tubular viewfinder (that's Graflex speak) with focal length- and format-specific masks and variable tilt to adjust for parallax given focused distance. What you described will work for one distance. Fine if that's how you're going to shoot the device, otherwise questionable.

I'm not sure what you meant by old folders. If you're thinking of press and technical cameras, well, viewed at a high enough level of abstraction they're all Graphics.

Dan Daniel · Jun 17, 2023

Here's a 300mm Petzval from Austria-

No Name Petzval Lens - f3.5 - 300mm - Large Format 8x10 | eBay

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My suggestion for a platform is a Speed Graphic 6x9 (sorry, not certain of specific name) with the focal plane shutter. Then you remove the bellows and lens mount and build a box, sliding or not, to hold your long lens (~200mm is max focal length on those 6x9 bodies using the original lens mount). You can probably use the front focus section if you want adjustment, need to swap sliding boxes. This eliminates shutter worries. Give you a stable mount. And easily changed to other focal lengths. Heck, the viewfinder tube is already there in this one-

Large Format Graflex Speed Graphic 2x3 Camera w/ Optar 101mm f4.5 Lens | eBay

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Rip off the rangefinder and other geegaws.

You'll need the Graflok back and then get a roll film adapter for 6x6. This leaves open 6x7 and 6x9 down the road.

The big advantage is the shutter is not tied to the lens since large shutters for those focal lengths are both very old and very not cheap.

A while back I was given an old Bush Pressman (?) with a graflok back. Cut away everything but the back mount. Replaced the sliding back retainers with set screws. Built a box up front and used the focus helical from a Pentax 50mm lens to mount a 47mm Angulon. Scale focusing. Well, keep an eye out for Graflok backs to make life easier. Buying the roll film system off the shelf and having an accurate film plane and mounting saves a lot headaches. No sense reinventing the wheeel or trying to duplicate machining old design; just grab and cut and paste.

Terence · Jun 18, 2023

Dan Fromm said:
Thanks for explaining. I don't see it. My Graphics have something similar. Tubular viewfinder (that's Graflex speak) with focal length- and format-specific masks and variable tilt to adjust for parallax given focused distance. What you described will work for one distance. Fine if that's how you're going to shoot the device, otherwise questionable.

I'm not sure what you meant by old folders. If you're thinking of press and technical cameras, well, viewed at a high enough level of abstraction they're all Graphics.

Medium format folders like Zeiss Ikonta, Certo 6, etc. I have plenty of big, heavy cameras that could do it, but want something light enough to carry around during my work day. It's for distant subjects, so very critical focus isn't really required, hence setting the lens at the hyperfocal distance.

Terence · Jun 18, 2023

Dan Daniel said:
Here's a 300mm Petzval from Austria-

No Name Petzval Lens - f3.5 - 300mm - Large Format 8x10 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for No Name Petzval Lens - f3.5 - 300mm - Large Format 8x10 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

My suggestion for a platform is a Speed Graphic 6x9 (sorry, not certain of specific name) with the focal plane shutter. Then you remove the bellows and lens mount and build a box, sliding or not, to hold your long lens (~200mm is max focal length on those 6x9 bodies using the original lens mount). You can probably use the front focus section if you want adjustment, need to swap sliding boxes. This eliminates shutter worries. Give you a stable mount. And easily changed to other focal lengths. Heck, the viewfinder tube is already there in this one-

Large Format Graflex Speed Graphic 2x3 Camera w/ Optar 101mm f4.5 Lens | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Large Format Graflex Speed Graphic 2x3 Camera w/ Optar 101mm f4.5 Lens at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Rip off the rangefinder and other geegaws.

You'll need the Graflok back and then get a roll film adapter for 6x6. This leaves open 6x7 and 6x9 down the road.

The big advantage is the shutter is not tied to the lens since large shutters for those focal lengths are both very old and very not cheap.

A while back I was given an old Bush Pressman (?) with a graflok back. Cut away everything but the back mount. Replaced the sliding back retainers with set screws. Built a box up front and used the focus helical from a Pentax 50mm lens to mount a 47mm Angulon. Scale focusing. Well, keep an eye out for Graflok backs to make life easier. Buying the roll film system off the shelf and having an accurate film plane and mounting saves a lot headaches. No sense reinventing the wheeel or trying to duplicate machining old design; just grab and cut and paste.

That was kind of my thought. I should have one or two 2x3 Graflex cameras somewhere in my boxes. I don't think I have a helical mount, which is why I was thinking of just building it to hyperfocal distance. All the subjects will be 1000' or more away anyway.

Helge · Jun 18, 2023

Graflex back and a body with a Graflex slide in bay that you can remove or use wholesale sounds like a start.
They made backs for 6x6 as well as 6x7.

A long lens shouldn’t be too hard.
Have you looked at refractor scopes?
Look for a cosmetically beaten up apochromatic that can cover 6x6. They also tend to throw a pretty flat field.
Something like a Borg 100ED?
Longer focal length than you asked though.

Shutter is another matter. Perhaps a falling slit shutter. Would require you turn the camera over for each exposure.

Dan Daniel · Jun 18, 2023

Terence said:
Medium format folders like Zeiss Ikonta, Certo 6, etc. I have plenty of big, heavy cameras that could do it, but want something light enough to carry around during my work day. It's for distant subjects, so very critical focus isn't really required, hence setting the lens at the hyperfocal distance.

OK, my Century Graphic with a film back and a 207mm lens is 10 inches in length. Subtract 1 inch for a more compact film transport system. Add 4 inches for a 300mm versus 200mm. 13 inches. Not sure if you can get to light and easy to carry at work, although not knowing your work maybe it will be fine.

And be careful about the critical focus significance. Depth of field is minimal. Setting a true hyperfocal distance and being able to maintain that is going to be very important.

Not being snide here- binoculars and a mount for a digital camera can get great results.

Dan Fromm · Jun 18, 2023

Terence said:
That was kind of my thought. I should have one or two 2x3 Graflex cameras somewhere in my boxes. I don't think I have a helical mount, which is why I was thinking of just building it to hyperfocal distance. All the subjects will be 1000' or more away anyway.

Well, if you have a 2x3 Speed Graphic, think telephoto. The longest lens I'm aware of that fits comfortably on a 2x3 Speed is the 12"/4 TTH telephoto as sold for Vinten F.95 and AGI/Williamson F.134 and F.139 aerial cameras. I have the lens and a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, the combination works well. The lens isn't common but they turn up on eBay.

There are other, more easily found tele lenses that will work on a 2x3 Graphic. The 10"/5.6 Wollensak (late ones may have been badged 250 mm), for one. I had one. These can be found in shutter. The longest standard issue lens for 2x3 Graphics.

Also think about Schneider Tele-Xenars and Tele-Artons (better). For that matter, I've got good results with a 305/9 Apo-Nikkor on my 2x3 Speed. Mounting it took some adapters from SKGrimes, was well worth the trouble and expense.

guangong · Jun 18, 2023

I would suggest a Leitz 400mm f6.8nTelyt trombone lens for Leicaflex or LTM ...there was a choice available back then. With adapters could be attached to any 35mm SLR. Haven’t tried with this lens, but I used Leitz lenses for 35mm cameras on my Hassy 1000F and 2000FCM for many years, so you could try on MF camera.
This lens is extremely light since glass consists of a single group with two elements.

Chuck1 · Jun 18, 2023

The collapsible tube novoflex 400, your still going to need a bigger work bag...

Thoughts on designs for a 300mm, 6x6 point-and-shoot, set around hyperfocal

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