Those Crazy Russian & Chinese Guys.

gone · Feb 8, 2014

I have this Zenit that has uneven shutter action on 1/500. Managed to find an online tutorial on how to adjust the speeds. Pulled the bottom off and had trouble right away when the instructions said "first, loosen the stop screws on the two shutter speed adjusters". What stop screws? All I have are some screw holes were they're supposed to be, and there's no sign of they're ever being installed either. That explains things on the shutter issue.

OK, the lens is a keeper, so I'll buy a Japanese camera and put the lens on that. I wanted to avoid the older cameras w/ cloth shutters, so I bought a Sears KS1000 (Pentax clone) w/ a metal shutter for cheap, but since it is K mount I needed an M42 to K adapter. The official Pentax adapters are a little dear, so I opted for the $6 Chinese special. The instructions that came w/ it were a little vague, but I eventually saw that the adapter needed to go inside the K mount (there's a small recess in the lens mount). No way would mine fit. I had to file it down quite a bit until it went in there.

Screwed the lens on and went outside to ck focus and saw that it wouldn't make infinity. Hmmmm. Turns out that not only did they make the adapter too big in diameter, it's also too thick. Back out w/ the file and I finally got it down to the level of the K mount on the camera. It still won't quite make infinity even though I took a little off the lens mount itself, but it's "close enough" I think. I'll run some film thru it tomorrow and see, but at F5.6 and above it should be fine on infinity shots. Everyone moans about these Chinese adapters, but I didn't know they were this bad.

Moral of the story. Buy Japanese, or even better, buy German from the beginning. They actually measure stuff before they ship it! The strange thing is, how did the Russians manage to make such great lenses?

j-dogg · Feb 8, 2014

well....there's an answer to both of these

Russians made such great lenses because of war reparations from WWII......they brought over a lot of Carl Zeiss optical engineers as well as their tooling and equipment after the war. Many Russian lenses are actually Zeiss clones, in fact some early Russian lenses produced immediately after the war have German Zeiss elements in them. Coupled with the military-industrial complex it isn't hard to see why their optics are so good.

Russian cameras are hit and miss though. The earlier models tend to be better built, back when the Soviet economy was decent. I have a FED-2 serviced by Fedka and a Zenit E which both I'm fairly certain could withstand a 25 mt hydrogen bomb blast with minimal damage. Their quality control back in the 50s was top notch, the Communist regime wanted to prove a point; to be more productive and higher quality than their capitalist adversaries, which was originally the point of Communism, on paper it was more productive than capitalism but that was only if you didn't squander resources and we all know what happens with absolute power.

tl:dr; commie glass is so good because of Carl Zeiss

now as for the Chinese adapters, I have three, a Canon EOS to Nikon F, EOS to M42 and EOS to M39 LTM, and I have never had any issues at all. Use the Fotodiox adapters.

Rudolf Karachun · Feb 8, 2014

A lot of adapters made the way that they don't focus at infinity. No matter where they made.

gone · Feb 8, 2014

Yes, I have a couple of cheap Chinese Leica R to Nikon adapters and they work wonderfully. But these K mount adapters seem to be universally reviled unless you use the Pentax made ones, and now I know why. It should reach infinity though. The adapters come in two varieties, one w/ a flange that CANNOT make infinity, and the recessed one like I bought which is essentially a Pentax clone, minus actual manufacturing tolerances :[ There is just far too much slop in the manufacturing standards with mine. Had to file and file on this thing. The camera handles really well w/ the Helios mounted on it in stop-down metering mode. I'm not really sure why it needs a little more filing to reach infinity, as the adapter is flush w/ the lens mount, but this is probably due to variations between the Japanese camera and my Russian lens. A little more filing will get me there if needed.

If anyone else is considering a M42 to K adapter, spend the extra money for the good one. This wasn't worth the cost savings.

Ricardo Miranda · Feb 8, 2014

For your consolation, I used Pentax cameras in the early 2000s with the Pentax adapter and all my M42 Pentax Takumar lenses worked perfectly well. Never had a problem with reaching the infinity. Although I much prefered to work with the M42 bodies as the lenses wouldn't do open aperture metering with the adapter.

benjiboy · Feb 8, 2014

However crazy the Chinese are if things carry on as they are, we had better start learning Maderin.

pen s · Feb 8, 2014

If you needed a camera with an M42 mount you could try the Fujica ST605n. Yeah, roller blind shutter but nicely made and I picked up mine for $20 at a camera show. Or you could try to find a Ricoh Singlex or Singlex II, both fine cameras with Copal Square metal shutters and native M42 mounts.

snapguy · Feb 8, 2014

national origin

Laying blame based on national origin does not work. Every nation makes great and lousy stuff. I have an East German Exacta that is klunky but still works fine after 50 years. I had a Rolleiflex that fell apart after a few years and a Yashicamat that is still working after 50 years. I think you should have bought a camera body that did not need an adapter instead of tinkers-to-evers-to-chance.
A friend of mine bought Japanese car in the 1970s and it was a tin can piece of junk with a 3-cylinder engine. It was an early Honda. They have improved since then. Germany made some swell mechanical stuff during World War II but depended mostly on horses to move war supplies around.

AgX · Feb 8, 2014

snapguy said:
Germany made some swell mechanical stuff during World War II but depended mostly on horses to move war supplies around.

Using horses was economically sound in war as they could be fed and replaced locally, and made an army independant on the limited output of the own gasoline and truck production.

snapguy · Feb 8, 2014

winners

And that is why the Germans won the war?

lxdude · Feb 9, 2014

momus said:
But these K mount adapters seem to be universally reviled unless you use the Pentax made ones, and now I know why. It should reach infinity though. The adapters come in two varieties, one w/ a flange that CANNOT make infinity, and the recessed one like I bought which is essentically a Pentax clone, minus actual manufacturing tolerances

Yes, I learned this sad lesson myself. I bought one and soon regretted it. Just awful. To remove it from my MX, I had to carefully cut it and remove it in two pieces. It was not easy to do without damaging the camera.

If anyone else is considering a M42 to K adapter, spend the extra money for the good one. This wasn't worth the cost savings.

Absolutely right.

lxdude · Feb 9, 2014

snapguy said:
And that is why the Germans won the war?

Well, that's not why they lost the war. Agx is right- it made sense, especially given the relative difficulty of getting supplies of petroleum fuel.
At the time, in Europe and even here, there was still a lot of animal power being used. My mother's father farmed here in Southern California in the 20's and 30's using animals to pull the plow. And certainly few sharecroppers could afford a tractor.

snapguy · Feb 9, 2014

war

And, so that is why WE won the war? The point I was making is that there are many nations with the best technology that still use ancient technology. Russia had better tanks than Germany in World War II. We had that Target credit card scam because our credit card technology is ten years behind Europe. We will catch up next year. My relatives were using draft houses to pull plows in the 1940s.

BMbikerider · Feb 9, 2014

I read an article a few years ago where they showed and described the quality control in the old Praktica factory. The basic camera body shell was examined visually and if the person examining the body thought it was not up to specifications, it was hit very hard with what we in England call a 4 pound brick hammer and just tossed into a bin to be melted down. No testing to see if everything was straight or the lens panel was correctly aligned, just the eye of the examiner was the deciding factor.

250swb · Feb 9, 2014

AgX said:
Using horses was economically sound in war as they could be fed and replaced locally, and made an army independant on the limited output of the own gasoline and truck production.

And with the further additional advantage that they could eat them on the retreat from Russia, when locally replaced food and crops turned out to have been burnt in the blitzkrieg when going in the other direction. Military planners, don't you just love them.

But to the general point. I don't think any company, even in China, is going to set up a CNC lathe to churn out inaccurate goods that subsequently can't be used. I mean, even if you were trying to fake something you'd still need to sell it, so it would have to work. It isn't like the internal Chinese market wants lens adapters and are happy to put up with sub-standard goods, so the factory bosses know their market, and these days they know how to make it happy. The main problem encountered with Chinese companies is 'literalness', they make things very accurately to the specification without question, so there is often no 'has the customer considered this may be a problem?' types of debate as happens in the West.

Steve

lxdude · Feb 9, 2014

250swb said:
But to the general point. I don't think any company, even in China, is going to set up a CNC lathe to churn out inaccurate goods that subsequently can't be used. I mean, even if you were trying to fake something you'd still need to sell it, so it would have to work. It isn't like the internal Chinese market wants lens adapters and are happy to put up with sub-standard goods, so the factory bosses know their market, and these days they know how to make it happy.

I've gotten enough lousy Chinese stuff to know that it can and does happen. Not saying that's all Chinese stuff, and they have gotten better overall, but I think sometimes the people running the manufacturing either do not know what the part is for, or they care only about production. When they're making a part to be sold all over the world, that means there's a lot of suckers like I was who buy one based on price. How many are going to go to the trouble to return them?
If you think those bosses are above shaving where they can, you're dreaming. How about the toys with lead paint, and the pet food with melamine in it to fool the tests for protein content that killed people's pets here? Or the same substance, for the same reason, in their domestic-market baby formula? Despite what you say, the knock-offs of the genuine Pentax adapters are notorious for being bad- many many people have had the experience that momus and I had.

The main problem encountered with Chinese companies is 'literalness', they make things very accurately to the specification without question, so there is often no 'has the customer considered this may be a problem?' types of debate as happens in the West.

Steve

I wish I'd seen some of this literalness of which you speak. It's hard to get more literal than a drawing with clear, concise and complete dimensional and tolerance specifications right on it.
When a company I used to work for decided to outsource screw machine form tools to China, I was the one who got the unenviable task of reworking them so they could actually be used. By the time I brought them just into tolerance, half their wear life was lost. Those tools never got returned to the vendor in China, because "it's too much hassle, it will take too long, what if the replacement is no better or is worse, we need it now", etc.
That compared to if they had paid a fair price to the tool and die company down the road. They would have gotten tooling fast and in spec, and if there had been a problem, it would have been resolved right away. You know-like they used to do, back in the old days, before bean-counters ran everything.

Steve Smith · Feb 9, 2014

The reason for Chinese manufacturing getting a bad reputation is that we get what we pay for. People want cheap rather than value for money and the cheapest is crap wherever it is made.

Some superb products come from China as well. This is my biased view as I work for a company which is owned by a huge Chinese company whose products are probably in items in the homes of most people here.

The things people are saying about Chinese manufacturing now are exactly what people were saying about Japanese manufacture thirty or forty years ago.

Steve.

lxdude · Feb 9, 2014

It's true that price has long been the major factor in buying Chinese-made products, and also that these days many things come only from China. And that nowadays high quality is coming from China in many products.

Still, there's a lot of junk coming over, too. The harmful products I mentioned, and others, have done a lot of harm to China's reputation. Then there's the whole patent/intellectual property thing. China has got to clean up its act.

I'm old enough to remember to remember when "Chinese junk" just referred to a sailing vessel.

pen s · Feb 9, 2014

Well, the topic has drifted a bit but...

The cheap adapters from China, well I've stuck mainly to fairly simple stuff, mainly step up/step down filter adapters and plastic lens caps and have mostly been surprised at how well they fit and worked. The thing is, with a typical price of under $3 with free shipping for a single step adapter you pays you money and you take your chance. For that price if one piece out of ten is unuseable you just toss it in the trash and move on. As for more expensive things like lens adapters, things that could damage a camera if not made right I think I'd perfer to get them from some importer from here in the states. They get the stuff from China and hopefully vet the quality before reselling to customers here.

Recently I bought a 43.5mm to 43mm step down filter adapter from China for my Olympus RC. It fit and works perfectly. Now my Pen D, Olympus Pen F lenses, and my RC all take the same filter/hood size. For about $3 shipped it is where these sort of deals really work out well.

Oh yeah, just popped into my brain. Fotodiox is one of those US importer companies that has adapters, I'd try them for more complex stuff before going direct to China.

blockend · Feb 9, 2014

I recently bought a Yashica/Contax to Fuji adapter and the dimensions were incorrect for the aperture pin to engage. The adapter was a very nice turned piece of metal, cheap but as well made as you could ask for, yet someone had set the CNC machine incorrectly. I have an FD to Fuji adapter, it works fine, a Yashica to EOS ditto, but a Nikon to EOS adapter rattles around in the mount. The mechanical quality of them all is good, the engineering tolerances are poor. It's as easy to set a computer properly as wrongly.

250swb · Feb 9, 2014

lxdude said:
I've gotten enough lousy Chinese stuff to know that it can and does happen. Not saying that's all Chinese stuff, and they have gotten better overall, but I think sometimes the people running the manufacturing either do not know what the part is for......

Hence my remark about 'literalness', they make what they are told to make. The only way to help is to buy, create capitalists and the ethos of quality (not that it isn't common) unless you want Communism to continue the best political statement is to embrace them, not bitch.

Steve

fotch · Feb 9, 2014

Steve Smith said:
The reason for Chinese manufacturing getting a bad reputation is that we get what we pay for. People want cheap rather than value for money and the cheapest is crap wherever it is made.

Some superb products come from China as well. This is my biased view as I work for a company which is owned by a huge Chinese company whose products are probably in items in the homes of most people here.

The things people are saying about Chinese manufacturing now are exactly what people were saying about Japanese manufacture thirty or forty years ago.

Steve.

I remember some items from Japan being inferior, such as drill bits sold at discount stores, but not everything. It does seem like everything coming from China is crap now, and a lot worst than anything I have seen in the last 50 years or so.

250swb · Feb 9, 2014

fotch said:
It does seem like everything coming from China is crap now, and a lot worst than anything I have seen in the last 50 years or so.

The people running factories in China don't come up with ideas for producing crap off the top of their head. It's not like they wake up in the middle of the night with a brainwave for how to sell shit. They make crap because entrepreneurs from around the world are ordering it by specifying cheap shoddy materials and bad design.

There is nothing to say the same lathe or injection moulding machine can't make a high end widget, but it needs to be ordered by somebody. It's like LTM adapters for Leica lenses, where Chinese workmanship is blamed by ignoramuses in 'the West' when the lens is rotated with an offset to the left. People whine that it isn't accurate, they moan that it's crap, yet overlook entirely that LTM lenses should be offset to the left. If the entrepreneur ordering them had specified to make them sit square on a modern M body the factory could have done it, but instead they copy their only reference point, the original specifications.

Steve

2bits · Feb 9, 2014

I remember "oh crap, made in Japan". Now look at them. My Dad, a WWll vet used to complain in the 50's about all the junk coming out of Japan. They were recovering from the big war. But this chinese thing is a lot different. It is a lowering of America's lifestyle to be equal to the rest of the world, (by the powers that be!) Enough of this geo political talk, and political correctness.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 9, 2014

I have a Pearl River knock off of a Rolleiflex. It doesn't have indexed film advance. It has a red window so you can advance your film to the next exposure. I've fogged my film a couple of times. I like it. It has a charm all it's own.

Those Crazy Russian & Chinese Guys.

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