This little Agfa Triplet is Wonderful!

Pioneer · Dec 3, 2022

The more I shoot this camera (1950s Agfa Silette) the more I like this lens. It is just an old triplet, a Color Apotar 45mm f2.8, in a very simple 4 speed Pronto shutter, but I very much like what it does. It may not be quite as Lo-Fi as an old Brownie #2 or a Holga, but its' not far off.
Don't get me wrong, this lens is not perfect by any means, but it has shown me just how nice a simple lens can be if you are willing to work with it. For example, without a hood it will flare at the drop of a hat; but sometimes that provides an interesting emphasis.

BrianShaw · Dec 3, 2022

I like it!

Paul Howell · Dec 3, 2022

There were a lot of triplets from the 50s that are very good stopped down, don't have the Agfa but I do like my Argus C3 50mm 3.5 triplet. Your Agfa is much better shooting into the sun.

Pioneer · Dec 3, 2022

Thanks.

I have the Argus C3 50mm and for some reason I thought it was an Elmar or Tessar clone. It has also become one of my favorites lens/camera combos.

albada · Dec 3, 2022

You just let the secret out. I have shot with the 3-element 50mm/f3.5 lens found on the cheapest Silettes, and found that it will compete against most Tessar-clones from the 50s and 60s. Are you sure yours is a 2.8 and not a 3.5? Anyway, some engineer in Agfa's optics lab did a great job.

AZD · Dec 4, 2022

I was thinking of the C3 Cintar triplet as well. I’ve had one sitting around for 25 years but never thought much of it until a couple years ago after taking it on vacation. It’s a quirky but very respectable performer. I really should use it more.

Pioneer · Dec 4, 2022

I was actually quite surprised with this lens, though I probably shouldn't be. Agfa did an excellent job with it though their history shows someone in that company was very good with lenses. The Solagon and Solinar have excellent reputations so it should follow that the Apotar would also be very capable.

The lens I have been enjoying is an Apotar 45/2.8 but I also have an Apotar 45/3.5. I am interested in experimenting with that lens however I am going to have to unfreeze the focus first. In the meantime I'll keep working with this one and getting more comfortable with it.

I am beginning to believe that I have probably bypassed some real treasures over the years that have amazing potential.

IMoL · Dec 4, 2022

I really like triplets - both the Novar Anastigmat on my Nettar and the Schneider Reomar on my Retinette produce excellent images.

Aside: I went to the same high school (many years apart!) as H. Dennis Taylor, the inventor of the Cooke Triplet.

BrianShaw · Dec 4, 2022

AZD said:
I was thinking of the C3 Cintar triplet as well. I’ve had one sitting around for 25 years but never thought much of it until a couple years ago after taking it on vacation. It’s a quirky but very respectable performer. I really should use it more.

Practically my entire childhood was recorded with Kodachrome and an Argus C-3 and 50mm Cintar triplet. Great photos. I wish my Dad knew about lens hoods, though, as one of my most painful childhood memories was his fussing about having the sun over his shoulder, and reading the light meter, and focussing, and then making us stop fidgeting. My brother inherited that camera and threatens to put it back in service. I don't want to be there when he does as I worry about PTSD. But great photos were made!

AZD · Dec 4, 2022

BrianShaw said:
Practically my entire childhood was recorded with Kodachrome and an Argus C-3 and 50mm Cintar triplet. Great photos. I wish my Dad knew about lens hoods, though, as one of my most painful childhood memories was his fussing about having the sun over his shoulder, and reading the light meter, and focussing, and then making us stop fidgeting.

Mine is even worse… the Matchmatic version which had paired light meter calibrated to the camera’s “simplified” controls. Mine was missing the meter, and shutter/aperture settings of 4,5,6,7,8 made little sense out of context in pre-internet days. I managed a roll or two in daylight relying on poor guessing and the exposure latitude of C41 film, but that was it.

About 10 years ago, before I got back into photography, the family was all on the front lawn one perfect summer afternoon, and I suddenly remembered the C3. I ran inside, loaded it with some old HP5 that had come in a blister pack with 8x10 paper, and made a few snaps outside. No way to develop it at the time, so kinda forgot about it. 6-7 years later I finally processed it and was rewarded with some moments I can clearly remember, but wouldn’t have without prompting. Pretty cool how that works. To me, that’s what these simple cameras were intended for.

Pioneer · Dec 4, 2022

Cold day. Warm shop. Coffee anyone?

nosmok · Dec 5, 2022

Love Agfa lenses, but damn, that solidifying grease... Best to get 'em cleaned and lubed already-- worth the premium!

Pioneer · Dec 7, 2022

nosmok said:
Love Agfa lenses, but damn, that solidifying grease... Best to get 'em cleaned and lubed already-- worth the premium!

You're right. These lenses are certainly worth it. Now all I need to find is some instructions on how to get this thing apart so I CAN clean it.

Dwight Anderson · Dec 7, 2022

I've had some success using a hair dryer to free up Agfa grease. I typically take the shutter off the camera first to avoid damaging bellows or struts. I heat the shutter in my hand until it is almost too hot to hold and then press and turn the front element against a rubber mat. My wife's silicone cooking covers work great. Once you get it to move, turn it to infinity so you can index the lens. Please be aware that the threads of the middle element may come loose instead of the front element, if that happens, you'll probably have to collimate the lens once you get the two elements apart. Also, once the lens cools, the grease may re-harden so you can't turn it again.

Take off the front trim ring (while set to infinity) by loosening the small set screws, don't remove them and don't let the lens turn. Using an exacto knife, make a small mark on the rim of the front element across from the focus mark on the shutter. Then turn the lens in until it bottoms out in the mount. Make a second mark on the lens mount right across from the mark you just made on the lens rim. This mark will help you make sure you have started the helical threads in the right place. Turn the front lens all the way out and clean the grease off the threads. I have been using 90% Isopropyl alcohol as a solvent. I have a Prontor service manual that say to use gasoline! I then use sewing machine oil, just two drops, on the threads. It soaks into the grease remnants and makes for a smooth movement.

An alternative to using heat is to soak the front element in Isopropyl alcohol to loosen the threads. I usually do this if I need to clean the shutter since that's what I use to free up sticky shutters.

When you replace the front element, the helical threads can be started in several different positions. The correct one will have the marks on the lens mount and lens rim line up when the lens is turned all the way in. Then turn the lens back out until the mark lines up with the shutter focus mark. Replace the trim ring with the infinity mark lining up with the shutter mark.

Donald Qualls · Dec 7, 2022

There should be just the front two elements, one screwed onto the other, screwed into the front of the shutter, and the rear element (or group, I don't recall for certain but an Apotar may be a Tessar type) unscrews from the back. You probably won't need to dismount the shutter from the front standard, but might want to do so to avoid putting excessive stress on the struts trying to get the front group out.

You'll want to keep very close track of where the front element cell unscrews from the middle one, as that determines your infinity focus and there are usually three or four starts on that thread.

I'm presuming here that the focus still works at least somewhat, else see the "stuck focus" instructions above...

Pioneer · Dec 7, 2022

I have managed to take a couple apart for cleaning before, but both of those would turn if I applied a little heat. This one is locked solid at 10 feet and will not move no matter what I do. I think I am going to have to remove the whole assembly from the camera if that is possible. If I do manage to get this one apart without wrecking anything it may turn out to be a good candidate for a good shutter cleaning as well.

This lens is amazingly clean! It doesn't look as if it has been opened to the elements much, if at all, in its' past life. My 45/2.8 is nice but nowhere near as nice as this 45/3.5. Unfortunately good shutter repair people are getting harder and harder to find.

Pioneer · Dec 7, 2022

My significant other says that Christmas decorations have to go up this weekend so this little project will have to wait a little bit.

markjwyatt · Dec 8, 2022

The Meyer Optik Gorlitz 50mm f2.8 Domiplan is a decent triplet stopped down a bit.

verticals by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

Closer to wide open it is not as good, but does have a somewhat "vintage" look.

Bare Tree by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

Pioneer · Dec 8, 2022

Very nice job Mark. Thanks for sharing these.

I have had the pleasure of using a very nice Domiplan 50/2.8 on my Spotmatic and I have found the same to be true. It does a great job from f5.6 onwards but tends to be a bit soft when used wide open.

Since using the Agfa triplet and the Domiplan I have developed a real fondness for the triplet formula. Here is another example. A bit messy but somehow I still like it.

markjwyatt · Dec 8, 2022

Pioneer said:
Very nice job Mark. Thanks for sharing these.

I have had the pleasure of using a very nice Domiplan 50/2.8 on my Spotmatic and I have found the same to be true. It does a great job from f5.6 onwards but tends to be a bit soft when used wide open.

Since using the Agfa triplet and the Domiplan I have developed a real fondness for the triplet formula. Here is another example. A bit messy but somehow I still like it.

View attachment 323600

Nice. Is that the Agfa or the Domiplan? The contrast is very good.

Pioneer · Dec 8, 2022

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on where that was from. I do have some examples from the Domiplan around here somewhere but this image was from the Agfa Apotar 45mm triplet.

Nicholas Lindan · Dec 8, 2022

I have had an Agfa Solina/Silette camera where the helical threads were stiff and so the threads holding the front cell assembly came loose from the camera. The focusing ring turned but the lens only moved in and out a minuscule amount. The focusing helical, while stiff, still moved and so the point of sharp focus would drift back and forth. As I was 10 years old at the time and didn't realize what was going on I was going mad trying to take a picture that was in focus.

I managed to figure out what was wrong by examining the focusing action on my Mother's Zeiss Nettar (still going strong 70 years later). I managed to get the front ring and cell/helical off the camera, munging the little screws in the process. Got the camera re-focused and then had to reattach the focusing ring with epoxy. Luckily, despite my finest of worst efforts, I got the focus mostly right and didn't have to try and get the ring off again.

Since then I have found the best way to fix the problem is to remove the whole of the front cell from the camera and then work on getting the helical apart. Slip-joint pipe pliers with electrical tape wound around the jaws have, so far, made all the helicals yield. I have found that Dow Vacuum grease does a good job for relubing the helical, better than the #10 grease from Japan Hobby, which will seperate and throw oil even at room temperature. I think that Mobil 1 synthetic blue grease would also work as it doesn't seperate. The proper grease would be Nye's damping grease, but I'm too cheap to buy some.

Donald Qualls · Dec 9, 2022

The few focus threads I've relubricated, I used Permalube, a clear teflon-based grease that comes in little squeeze tubes. Might be a little lighter viscosity than the original, but I haven't noticed any tendency to outgas oils.

This little Agfa Triplet is Wonderful!

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