This is the reason why I rather buy film online.

spark · Jul 15, 2021

Glass Key is great, I stop by when in San Francisco for business. Their location was close to public transit lines, though I don't know how the COVID adjustments have affected this. Closer to home, Foto Express in San Jose has a good selection of films and offers in-house processing. Their film prices are a dollar or two higher than the online stores but I appreciate them being there. They are a few blocks from San Jose State University. In my travels I've found that if a city has a university, there is usually a camera film shop close by.

Bill Burk · Jul 15, 2021

logan2z said:
That ship has already sailed, at least in the SF Bay Area. There are almost no physical camera stores, and the one or two that are hanging on don't sell film.

Be sure to stop by Glass Key near the Haight and Kaufmann’s in San Mateo

BradS · Jul 16, 2021

There used to be a few good camera stores in the South Bay. I wonder how many have survived. It was such a tragic loss when Keeble & Shuchat in Palo Alto closed.

ciniframe · Jul 16, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
As Brian points out, if everyone buys on line there will be no camera stores when you need one.

That is already true for most of us. For all practical purposes I have no access to a camera store. In the 1970’s there were about 20K camera stores in the US, now there are about 200. That is 4 per state. One hour processing labs (yes I know, huge variation in quality), by about the 80’s you couldn’t walk down the street without tripping over one, now….as far as I know, there are none. If you still choose to shoot film, unless you are wealthy, you do your own developing with both color and B&W.

logan2z · Jul 16, 2021

BradS said:
There used to be a few good camera stores in the South Bay. I wonder how many have survived. It was such a tragic loss when Keeble & Shuchat in Pali Alto closed.

The only one I'm aware of is San Jose Camera, and it's kind of crappy. But I wasn't aware of some of the Bay Area shops mentioned in this thread so I may be overlooking some in the South Bay too.

foc · Jul 16, 2021

Online shopping, in general, has opened up a huge variety of choices of products to purchase.
Bricks and mortar shops can't compete in offering that choice and so it becomes catch 22 for them. (haven't it in stock? I'll buy it online).
Online is very convenient but it can make us very lazy. Also there is no personal interaction with online. Personally, I like having a chat in store.

Regarding prices online versus in store. There are a variety of reasons this can happen. Supply chain, country of supply, bulk discounts, taxes/Vat.
For example, in the EU since the 1st July, the rate of Vat on a purchase is the country of purchase rate. For a simplified example, I buy film from Fotoimpex in Germany, (their Vat rate is 19%) but they charge me the Irish rate of 23%.

If anyone thought that there was a huge markup on film, then they are sadly mistaken. Also some online and in-store retailers will offer selected products at cost(not below cost) to entice you in and make a profit on the additional/other products you purchase.

If I am shopping on line, the first thing I do is look at the delivery prices and policy. I have seen big variations in prices for delivery, especially from UK online suppliers now that Brexit has happened.

faberryman · Jul 16, 2021

foc said:
Online is very convenient but it can make us very lazy. Also there is no personal interaction with online. Personally, I like having a chat in store.

So I went in to pick up a liter of film developer. They were out. I had a nice chat. I went back three weeks later and their order had not come in, so they were still out. I had a nice chat. I guess I am lazy but I just ordered it online and it was on my porch in two days. I didn’t miss the nice chat.

Shall I tell you my experience trying to buy a camera from them? Let’s just say I had a nice chat and six weeks later I had another nice chat. So I bought it online and it was on my porch two days later. I didn’t miss the nice chat.

film_man · Jul 16, 2021

While I buy all my film online I do buy it from places like fotoimpex or wherever that is an actual store. Basically anything but Amazon. I generally don't find it an issue waiting for film, I buy what I need for the year in 2-3 purchases at most so never really are in a position of running out.

Donald Qualls · Jul 16, 2021

Huss said:
Same thing would happen to me when I used to ride motos. Would go to the local shop, ask for tyres, or a chain, or a helmet. "Don't have it in stock, but we can order it"...
Ya, so can I, I'll get it quicker, it would be shipped directly to my house, and for less..

When I rode, I kind of understood that bit -- with literally hundreds of models of motorcycles (include the obscure brands, like the old British ones, there might be fifty brands, and parts change from model year to model year) to service, the local shop can't possibly keep all the parts on hand. Even with tires, any given size/brand/style combination might only sell a few units a year, especially if it's not for their own brand's Harley imitator.

With film, on the other hand, there are only a couple dozen choices all tolled, counting Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji, all formats -- perishability is the issue here. If they try to stock everything, and none of their customers shoot (say) slow black and white, the Pan F will expire on the shelf. So they have to pick and choose. Then they need to price to make a profit on those single-roll purchases, else they wind up closing the doors. Retail for specialty goods is a hard way to make a living.

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 16, 2021

BradS said:
There used to be a few good camera stores in the South Bay. I wonder how many have survived. It was such a tragic loss when Keeble & Shuchat in Pali Alto closed.

Tell me about it! When I would go to SF on vacation, I would make sure to include a trip down to Keeble & Shuchat if for no other reason than to wander through the "Pro" shop on the south side of the street and gawk at the used gear and look at all the cool relics they had on display above the sales cases. I think I bought a lens for my Hasselblad kit there once. Or maybe for the Contax SLR kit.

logan2z · Jul 16, 2021

One Bay Area shop that hasn't been mentioned is Seawood Photo. They're in San Rafael so quite a ways from me, but if you're visiting San Francisco it's not too far. Lots of used film cameras, lenses, the odd enlarger and other darkroom stuff, some chemistry, paper, etc. Worth a visit.

Sal Santamaura · Jul 16, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Isn't The Darkroom a brick and mortar store (in addition to their large processing facility)? Or are they not in the Bay Area?

logan2z said:
They're in Southern California.

BrianShaw said:
San Clemente, to be exact. Once upon a time The Darkroom was in the San Francisco bay area. I'm not aware of a walk-in store or selling film.

"The Darkroom" a.k.a. "HARMAN Lab US" is in reality Swan Photo Labs. It's nothing more than a processing lab two miles from me that uses multiple marketing initiative "personas." Physical address of all three is 946 Calle Amanecer, San Clemente, CA 92673.

https://thedarkroom.com/

https://www.harmanlab-us.com/

https://www.swanphotolabs.com/

It's located in a business park ("industrial estate" for those who speak British English) and has the very smallest of front counter areas for walk-in drop off and pick up. I haven't been there in several years (much better results developing film myself), but don't recall ever seeing any film for sale in that counter area.

AnselMortensen · Jul 16, 2021

Bill Burk said:
Be sure to stop by Glass Key near the Haight and Kaufmann’s in San Mateo

Kaufman's is now located in San Bruno.
Definitely worth checking out.

AnselMortensen · Jul 16, 2021

There is a monthly Camera Swap in Hayward.

Huss · Jul 16, 2021

BradS said:
Same experience at the local bookstore.

But there is something just so about local bookstores.

Huss · Jul 16, 2021

logan2z said:
One Bay Area shop that hasn't been mentioned is Seawood Photo. They're in San Rafael so quite a ways from me, but if you're visiting San Francisco it's not too far. Lots of used film cameras, lenses, the odd enlarger and other darkroom stuff, some chemistry, paper, etc. Worth a visit.

Visiting their site they really seem to have an excellent selection of film gear.

Arthurwg · Jul 16, 2021

Huss said:
Well if you needed it in a hurry that is actually very cheap.
If you placed a rush express order for one roll of film from B&H, for example, shipping is $13.27. So while their low low price for TriX is $8.84, your total before tax would have been $24 for one roll of tri-X

$11 is a screaming deal!

Screaming deal? I did buy one roll. I hope that helped keep them in business.

Huss · Jul 16, 2021

Arthurwg said:
Screaming deal? I did buy one roll. I hope that helped keep them in business.

If you need it at that moment, yes.

logan2z · Jul 16, 2021

Huss said:
Visiting their site they really seem to have an excellent selection of film gear.

They do. Good customer service too.

BradS · Jul 16, 2021

logan2z said:
The only one I'm aware of is San Jose Camera, and it's kind of crappy. But I wasn't aware of some of the Bay Area shops mentioned in this thread so I may be overlooking some in the South Bay too.

I was never very comfortable in San Jose camera either but they seemed to cater almost exclusively to professionals and had a very good selection of pro gear at very competitive prices. I remember there being at least three other pretty good camera shops in the San Jose / Santa Clara / MIlpitas area. One that I really liked, probably long out of business, was called Kamera Korner or something kooky like that. They had all the usual new camera and film stuff and they did some minor repairs on site but what made them special were the bins of funky stuff along the side wall.

spark · Jul 16, 2021

BradS said:
I was never very comfortable in San Jose camera either but they seemed to cater almost exclusively to professionals and had a very good selection of pro gear at very competitive prices. I remember there being at least three other pretty good camera shops in the San Jose / Santa Clara / MIlpitas area. One that I really liked, probably long out of business, was called Kamera Korner or something kooky like that. They had all the usual new camera and film stuff and they did some minor repairs on site but what made them special were the bins of funky stuff along the side wall.

Kamera Korner had a couple incarnations, their bins were always fun to dig through but I can’t remember buying anything out of them. Maple Leaf on Saratoga had good deals on lenses, usually matching the prices of the NY stores that advertised in the magazines. All this was pre-internet.

ozphoto · Jul 17, 2021

I'm doing some work in a store in my hometown - Covid has seen stocks of film dwindle to almost zero over the past 12 months. At one stage, the only way the store could get stock from the supplier was to agree to a price increase for having it sent air-freight. Needless to say, raising the price wasn't going to work, as other stores were able to get their usual stock (non-airfreighted) because they were buying in massive quantities, so my store had to eat the excess.

At this current time, the only stock we can get is Gold 200 3-pks and ProImage ProPacks - everything else is on back-order. I don't begrudge anyone trying to recoup their costs - after all, selling at a loss will eventually send them out of business.

Nodda Duma · Jul 17, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Some retailers (online or otherwise) choose not to collect the sales tax. They are still obligated to keep records and pay that tax, however -- just not required by law to pass that taxation along to their customers (in essence, they're pricing it in as overhead cost, since it's an expense they have to account for in their profit and loss balance).

My online store regularly tells California with its desire to squeeze the last drop of money out of anything possible to go pound sand. On the other hand, my etsy store collects taxes automatically and there’s nothing I can do about it. Welcome to the modern world.

btw I’m expanding out of my basement into a commercial space, and am going to open up a retail outlet at the front (public darkroom and basic film photog classes too). After investigating dealer (wholesale) pricing of film, chemicals, etc., I’ve concluded there’s N.F.W. a brick and mortar can set pricing at or below an online store like B&H and make enough margin to stay open. The margins (between what a store pays and what they can reasonably sell at) are insanely small.

softfascination · Jul 17, 2021

Luckless said:
I could have more stuff if I bought everything online and waited for shipping.

My local community as a whole can have more stuff if I buy a little less overall, but buy most of it local.

The local camera shop I buy most of my stuff from has 35mm rolls of Ektar 100 on for $16 + tax to drop in and have in hand later this afternoon, Buying a few rolls from B&H would cost me $13.24 + Tax + random chance of brokerage fee on import to have in hand at sometime next week, or maybe the week after...

14.61 Euro works out as $21.75 CAD currently, so I would agree that it is a bit steep. But it really comes down to a local market judgement call. Is supporting the store and helping keep its doors open for you worth the cost?

It's worth mentioning that B&H does offer free shipping to Canada for orders over $100. But then there's duties...

Another option since you're in Canada is downtowncamera.com. They have this $25/yr film club where you save %10 on general film and darkroom chems and you save %25 on all Kodak products. They also have free shipping over $125. Eleven rolls of Portra 160 in 35mm comes out to $133 before taxes.

PerTulip · Jul 18, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Yes... the price of convenience and the cost of maintaining a brick-and-mortar store. You should thank them for being there for you in your time of need.

Absolutely not! At my brick&mortar store, Ektar 100/135 is being sold for €12. €14,61 is insane. What's interesting with such stores, the "price of convenience and the cost of maintaining" just applies to film. They are not applying the same huge markups (+40%!) to cameras, lenses, bags, etc. It's always film where camera stores apply some extra €.

I am lucky to have a local store where "price of convenience and the cost of maintaining" does not mean I pay +30% or +40% more. And just by the way, Fotoimpex (Adox!) has done more for film shooters than most stores, so I'd rather pay them.
I buy cameras, lenses, etc. at my local store, and am not paying significantly more than buying online. And also have a great local store that deals in vintage cameras. Compared to online auctions I pay more, but the whole camera condition thing is clear, I get a warranty, etc. And I am perfectly OK with that. But I am NOT willing to pay +40% for a roll of film.

This is the reason why I rather buy film online.

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