Thinking of Medium Format

dbramsey · Feb 4, 2010

Hi,
I am thinking of going to medium format. It is something I have wanted to do for a long time. I have been using 35mm for quite sometime. With the cost of MF cameras (used) coming down, I have been thinking about it again. What would be a good camera for the beginner who likes to take nature photography? Thanks for any input.
David

36cm2 · Feb 4, 2010

MF is great. If you're not going to be hiking long distances, many love the Mamiya RB (or RZ) 67. It's very economical these days, offers a range of lenses, is practical for macro use and is very high quality. It is a bit heavy and large for some. If money is no object, you will hear a chorus of Hasselblad recommendations. Many who end up in MF end up buying a Hasselblad at some point, but the price point may be high for your initial foray. If you're just wanting to try things out with lower expense than a TLR or an older rangefinder folder may suit you, but fixed focal lengths may be limiting for broad outdoor work. Also you may not like the feel of a TLR or rangefinder if you're used to SLR (then again you may love it). You might also like the look of a new rangefinder (ala Mamiya 6 or 7) - expensive but great lenses. Take your time looking around at your options and try the search feature here on APUG, it is the best resource you will ever find. Your question has been posed (and answered) many times. When you've narrowed down your choices come back to get some more specific answers. The forum is very friendly and has an incredible number of very experienced and talented photographers. Best of luck.

Rick A · Feb 4, 2010

I'm rather partial to the Yashica D, and most other TLR cameras. The Yash D allows for the most basic of functions. You take exposure readings with a seperate hand held meter, set the shutter speed and aperture, cock the shutter check focus and frameing, and snap. You then advance the film and start the procedure all over. This model allows for multi-exposure, so be careful to advance the film after each shot, unless you deliberatly want double(or more)exposure. I am a huge fan of twin lens reflexes in general, I love the square format, and the simplicity of the cameras.

Rick

wclark5179 · Feb 4, 2010

Check out Rolleiflex/Rolleicord. I sometimes will take one with me when I go traveling. They have many features and benefits you can check here:

http://www.rolleiclub.com/

thebanana · Feb 4, 2010

It's like asking what kind of car to buy, you'll get dozens of opinions. I prefer Mamiya's (I use an M645 1000s and a C330 TLR). Reasonably priced, easily sourced parts and accesories and excellent glass. Decide on how much you want to spend, then do lots of research. Avoid fleabay if at all possible.

pcooklin · Feb 4, 2010

David - I agree with 36cm2 - You may well end up with a Hasselblad after trying different gear, I did. I also have a Arax 60 and a Bronica ETRSi which is excellent, cheap, good lenses, smaller than a Hasselblad etc, but I like 6x6 which may not be an issue for you. I would also look at the Mamiya 6/7 for portability if you can get on with a rangefinder - some swear by them, others swear at them. My suggestion would be to try a few. If you can or at least put together a list of 'must have's'...this might narrow it down a bit for you. Whatever you decide, Im sure you'll be impressed with the overall film size quality/tones etc.

Leighgion · Feb 4, 2010

The concerns in selecting a 120 camera really aren't especially different than for 135 ones. The 120 cameras are all bigger and heavier, but there's SLRs, rangefinders and scale focus medium format cameras just like in 35mm. You have much less depth of field at a given aperture than in 35mm, but otherwise the same rules of exposure apply.

The Mamiya 7 rangefinder system finds a lot of favor with nature photographers because of the quality of the lenses and the fact it's about as compact and light as you can ask a 6x7 camera with interchangeable lenses to be. A Mamiya 7 system will cost you a bit dear though.

If you want to start out economy and don't mind some weight, there's numerous quality TLRs like the Yashicas that can be had for little as $100 if with careful shopping. Not my style, but many people love these.

Medium format SLRs offer the same kind of flexibility as their 35mm counterparts, but they'll give a workout as they're big.

My own medium format kits are a Mamiya 645 Super SLR system and a Fuja GA645. My Mamiya 645 offers a lot of flexibility, is about as small as a medium format SLR is going to be and came at a very reasonable cost. My Fuji is a carry-everywhere camera that's a pretty handy slab when the lens is retracted.

grahamp · Feb 4, 2010

If by 'nature' you mean small/distant subjects with longer than normal lenses then you really want an SLR, maybe a 645 format. Possibly a Mamiya C TLR. Longer lenses in the larger format are more limited in scope than in the smaller formats.

Robert Hall · Feb 4, 2010

I saw a Beautyflex on Ebay once for $14. I have had one since 1950 and is still in mint condition. It takes great images.

You might also consider a Holga or Diana. Great images unique to each camera.

I think people get all caught up in needing "gear".

Remember images are created first with the heart and the mind, not the camera.

tkamiya · Feb 4, 2010

dbramsey said:
Hi,
What would be a good camera for the beginner who likes to take nature photography? Thanks for any input.
David

I've asked the same question not too long ago and basically got a list of all available medium format cameras as recommended cameras!!! I had a short list of cameras but I couldn't make up my mind - then fellow APUGers kept adding to my list. I chose a Mamiya 645 super because it was offered to me at a price and condition that I simply couldn't refuse.

If you are looking for SLR type cameras, Mamiya 645 series are hard to beat. Depending on configuration, they act pretty much like an oversized 35mm SLR. I have a Mamiya 645 Super with a metering prism and a power winder. I don't have anything to complain about my setup.

They are plentiful and should something fail, replacement cost of the module may be lower than the cost of repair.

mgb74 · Feb 4, 2010

tkamiya said:
I've asked the same question not too long ago and basically got a list of all available medium format cameras as recommended cameras!!! ...

That's the beauty! You get different answers to the same question; sometimes even from the same person (and I'm not pointing to anyone who responded above).

But really, it depends a lot on your preferences and how you want to use the camera. In particular, what's your definition of "nature photography". If you mean wildlife, I'm not sure a MF camera is the way to go given the availability/expense/size of very long lenses. But if you mean landscape, then the world is your MF oyster.

So here are my questions back to you:
What will be the typical size of your subject and distance you will shoot from?
Do you have an inherent preference for square or rectangular format?
Do you require interchangeable lenses?
Do you have a preference for waist level or prism finder? Or do you want the option of either?
Do you require interchangeable backs (for changing film type in mid roll or for rapid reloading of film)?
Is shutter noise an issue?
Will you be carrying the camera gear far?
Will you be using a tripod most of the time?
And last, but never least, what's your budget?

Steve Smith · Feb 4, 2010

I suggest reading this thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Steve.

zumbido · Feb 4, 2010

It's specialized and is definitely not appropriate for every intention, but consider pinhole as well.

Obviously not the right choice if what you really want out of MF is "as much resolution as I can get without carrying plates".

cdowell · Feb 4, 2010

Lots of good opinions here. I have to offer the one someone offered me ten or more years ago: YashicaMat 124G and tripod. If you get used to working thoughtfully, composing on glass and living with a lens of normal focal length, then you'll have learned everything you need to know to make a system choice. Even if that choice is only moving to a more upscale TLR. My two cents...

mikebarger · Feb 4, 2010

Those two cents are worth a couple bucks easy.

Mike

chris00nj · Feb 4, 2010

I was in your shoes a couple months ago! I wanted to try medium format but wanted to limit my investment to $300. If you are willing to take a deeper plunge, perhaps consider the aforementioned rangefinders like the Mamiya 7 or SLRs like the Hassey, Bronica, Fujica, etc.

The least expensive, and smallest, foray into medium format will be with a rangefinder-less folder (guess focusing). If you plan on using small apertures and distant focusing, then the lack of focusing guide won't be an issue. The Zeiss Ikonta or Voigtlander Bessa I come with reputable lenses and easily go for under $100.

Several TLRs offered great value for the money such as 50s era Rolleiflex or the Ikoflex. Body with fixed Zeiss lenses for $150-$250. (A body and Zeiss lens for a Hasselblad system will cost multiples more.) The Yashica Mat is another quality camera. There are a multitude of "off brand" TLR, such as the Ricohflex or the Ciroflex. Many of these can be easily had for under $100. Rolleicords have a few less features than the 'flex, but the price discount isn't that much. Given the closeness in price on the used market, I went with the classic, a 1955 Rolleiflex with Zeiss Tessar 75/3.5 in user condition for around $200. (Later Rolleis get pricey: here's a Dead Link Removed).

I'd consider this Ikoflex for $139, or this Rolleiflex for $219, which is similar to the one I got. Also, a Yashica Mat 124G.

Here's a shot with my Rollei:

weldong · Feb 5, 2010

older rolleiflexes that are in good condition

Try to look for older Rolleiflexes with Tessar F3.5 lenses that is still in good shape (clean glass and repairable). They are usually found for a lot cheaper than the high demand Plannar models and they can still take a great picture.

From a Automat RF111a Tessar 75mm :

fschifano · Feb 5, 2010

dbramsey said:
Hi,
What would be a good camera for the beginner who likes to take nature photography?
David

Well, what's nature photography for you? Is is wildlife that you need to photograph from afar, or are you more the "bugs and flowers" type of photographer? If you're thinking of something that requires really long lenses in 35 mm, then maybe medium format isn't a good fit for you. Long lenses for medium format offering equivalent angles of view obtainable by 200 to 400 mm lenses in 35 mm are going to be huge, very heavy, and expensive - in other words, not terribly portable. If you've got the chops to get in close to wildlife, then you can do it. Bugs and flowers stuff isn't too hard. Macro, or close focusing lenses and/or accessories are not too difficult to obtain for medium format SLR's, and not terribly unwieldy.

Sirius Glass · Feb 5, 2010

fschifano said:
Well, what's nature photography for you? Is is wildlife that you need to photograph from afar, or are you more the "bugs and flowers" type of photographer? If you're thinking of something that requires really long lenses in 35 mm, then maybe medium format isn't a good fit for you. Long lenses for medium format offering equivalent angles of view obtainable by 200 to 400 mm lenses in 35 mm are going to be huge, very heavy, and expensive - in other words, not terribly portable. If you've got the chops to get in close to wildlife, then you can do it. Bugs and flowers stuff isn't too hard. Macro, or close focusing lenses and/or accessories are not too difficult to obtain for medium format SLR's, and not terribly unwieldy.

Actually the 350mm and 500mm lenses are not all that heavy because they are mostly air. Expensive air, but air nevertheless.

Steve

Pupfish · Feb 5, 2010

Most any MF SLR unless overly abused is going to still be quite capable. Every brand will have it's share of fans.

645 will be a huge step up in image quality from 35mm. The SLRs in this format tend to be really good bargains ever since wedding pros dumped them for digital, depressing prices. Ones that weren't actually used professionally are likely to be in vastly better condition but are nevertheless still bargains. Value, quality and availability of lenses is another factor. The Pentaxes, Bronicas and Mamiyas were quite common and unloaded for cheap, with fewer Pentaxes actually being used professionally due to the slow flash sync. Without the leaf shutter lenses like the Broni's, Pentax lenses tend to focus more closely as well. The 120mm f/4 1:1 Pentax SMC-A manual focus macro lens is a particular bargain, most selling on eBay for around $200.

Considering teles for wildlife, however, MF rapidly loses whatever perceived advantage it once may have enjoyed over 35mm, due to the improvements in films, sensors and lenses. Even sticking completely with film (this is APUG, after all) 35mm image quality available these days with emulsions like Astia gives 35mm gear a huge advantage. VR and IS are simply unavailable in larger formats than 35mm. Slow AF, frame advance rates and shutter lag in MF will also prove serious handicapping by comparison.

Greg Campbell · Feb 5, 2010

dbramsey said:
Hi,
I am thinking of going to medium format. It is something I have wanted to do for a long time. I have been using 35mm for quite sometime. With the cost of MF cameras (used) coming down, I have been thinking about it again. What would be a good camera for the beginner who likes to take nature photography? Thanks for any input.
David

"Nature photography"
You're going to have to narrow your preferences more than that!

Give these sites a look.

http://photo.net/equipment/medium-format/

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-medium.shtml

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/fuji617.shtml

http://www.photographyreview.com/cat/cameras/film-cameras/medium-format/PLS_3107crx.aspx

Then decide which formats you find interesting.
6x6, being square, makes an excellent change of pace camera. Wrapping one's head around the square format can be a welcome challenge.
6x7 thru 6x9 are more 'normal' frame proportions.
When you reach the Pano formats, you're once again in territory that will make you stop and think. (Never a bad thing, IMO.)

Now, consider what sort of camera you're willing to drag around. For any given format, a folding camera will usually be smallest and lightest, followed by a rangefinder, then TLR, with the SLR designs being larger, bulkier and heavier, but also offering greater flexibility. Finally, you've got various panoramic monsters, from 6x12 to 6x17 and up. These are huge, film devouring cameras, but OMG, the images you can make!

Think of the shooting you do, how much hiking, etc,. and try to come up with some general ideas regarding what you want. THEN come back and ask. Until then, all you'll get is a million random "Pick me, Monty!" opinions.

Venchka · Feb 5, 2010

Greg covered everything well. I would that there are few bad medium format cameras. Certainly all of the major brands mentioned here are as good as anyone needs. Usually better.

Eye level vs. waist level viewing is a consideration. My progression through medium format has included: Brownie Hawkeye 620 (still have it), Mamiya TLR and 80mm lens, Rapid Omega & 90mm lens, Pentax 6x7 and 105mm lens...........skip about 30 years........current menagerie: Pentax 6x7 (again) & 45mm, 105mm, 150mm lenses, Hasselblad 501 C/M & 80mm Planar CFE. All winners in my book.

2F/2F · Feb 6, 2010

Depends on what you mean by "nature photography".

PaulW128 · Feb 6, 2010

Greg;

Thanks so much for those mf links. The articles therein are some of the most interesting and comprehensive mf articles I've ever read.

I'm in a similar situations to the OP David. Been thinking about mf on and off for awhile. I'm drawn to the Mamiya 7 but I'm so accustomed to slr's, a rangefinder might be a problem. I think (with the help of those links) I've narrowed my choices down to the 645 format, probably the Mamiya 645 Pro. They are just so damn cheap these days!!

My biggest challenge will be to convince my wife I need another camera......but one step at a time

Thanks again to all, great thread, lots of useful information!

Best
Paul

zinnanti · Feb 6, 2010

A Mamiya C33 with an 80mm 2.8 lens can be acquired on eBay for about $150 to $200. Once you look through the ground glass, you'll never go back to 35mm (well, maybe now and then).

For years, I shot 35mm and DSLR. Once I got my Mamiya TLR it was that and view cameras. It will move your photography (with some hard work) to whole different level if you're doing portrait and fine art.

Jus' mah $.02

Tony

Thinking of Medium Format

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