Thinking of investing in $5,000 - $10,000 of film. Suggestions?

More worrisome will be availability of chemicals, specially for color. I have kept Kodachrome 25 for 5 years past exp with no ill effect, but that is basically black and white film. Slow film lasts longer than fast film, but at some point they all fog from radiation unless you have a salt mine. Buy raw chems for D76 and divide the metol into small sealable bottles. Cut down a plastic spoon to remove powder. Hydroquinone is far less sensitive to oxidation but is sensitive. 20 mule team borax lasts forever. The Chemistry Store sells sodium sulfite in 25 # pails cheap and it works.

I have no idea how to get around the fact black and white paper has chemicals in it so it need not be aged before being sold. Cost saving for Ilford, bad for us because freezing will not stop the fog that generates in 3 years. I have some 40 year old Medalist ( exp 1969) that prints ok, not great but ok. Any current paper is gone in 3 years. You can scan and digitize, but scanners will not be available or repairable by then and software probably will not go into the computer available at that time.

In short, think this through very carefully.

Agree on the paper, I have no more than a year supply on hand. As for film base fog, I am doing better than expected in that regard..

For example, I live at 8,000 feet and yet both my Kodak HIE expired in 2009 and my Aerographic 2424 (120 version of HIE ) have no detectable base fog. I bet it will be fine by the time it is all shot in a couple years, who knew?

That being said, I have no other films like that or really high speed stuff stored for the reasons you have stated. I bet one could come up with a sound plan for color, I personally have no interest in doing that though...

Ronald Moravec said:

More worrisome will be availability of chemicals, specially for color. I have kept Kodachrome 25 for 5 years past exp with no ill effect, but that is basically black and white film. Slow film lasts longer than fast film, but at some point they all fog from radiation unless you have a salt mine. Buy raw chems for D76 and divide the metol into small sealable bottles. Cut down a plastic spoon to remove powder. Hydroquinone is far less sensitive to oxidation but is sensitive. 20 mule team borax lasts forever. The Chemistry Store sells sodium sulfite in 25 # pails cheap and it works.

I have no idea how to get around the fact black and white paper has chemicals in it so it need not be aged before being sold. Cost saving for Ilford, bad for us because freezing will not stop the fog that generates in 3 years. I have some 40 year old Medalist ( exp 1969) that prints ok, not great but ok. Any current paper is gone in 3 years. You can scan and digitize, but scanners will not be available or repairable by then and software probably will not go into the computer available at that time.

In short, think this through very carefully.

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Another poster pointed out that fast B&W film fogs faster than slow film. I know that by experience: I shot a few rolls of Tmax-400 (the last of TMY-1, just before TMY-2 came along) that had been frozen for around 4 years, and it had very high fog. Based on that, I suggest not storing fast film for a long time, even if frozen.

Mark Overton

Others here have answered with far more experience and wisdom about things to think about regarding your choices. I won't offer any advice, but only a couple of observations.

I saw your post on Reddit and the answers there suck. ( For other folks here: They mostly were telling him to go shoot digital and not waste money on film or time on a kind of photography that is obsolete and going away.... and that he is sticking his head in the sand for not seeing that film is dying. ) I thought those responses were inappropriate and even more so since we're talking about LF.

Anyway, it occurred to me that $5K is not a completely outrageous amount to spend on a long term supply of film. For 35mm that would be like having 100 spools in the freezer. I don't think I'd have that much, but I could easily imagine having 10 or 20, and my film use is slow and deliberate.

Good luck and I wish you well!

I'd like to get 100 sheets in ISO 400 and 200 sheets in ISO 100 in 5x7 and 4x5, then 20-ish rolls of ISO 400 and 10 of ISO 100 in 120. It would cost right around $600 for Arista EDU Ultra. Totals: 600 sheets of film and 30 rolls, totaling 960 shots. That would take me through at least six projects I'd think, four in large format and at least two in 120. So it would likely last the year or more.

I'll likely buy one of each of the large format, and ten of the ISO 400 120. It'll take it down to a number my husband won't gripe about, plus it'll allow me to rethink what films I want to use for the next projects. It should get me through the three that I have in mind right now.

If we're talking about the zombie apocalypse I wouldn't really worry too much about fast film. They're notoriously slow.

On and off I have been thinking of "hoarding" film, but in the end I find that 6-12 months worth of film (in my case 50-100 rolls of 35 mm film) is the best balance. It gets me enough to do a few tests and having enough of one batch to know how it works. I think a steady stream of smaller purchases from as many people as possible keeps film in business. Agile film buying.

Stephanie Brim said:

If we're talking about the zombie apocalypse I wouldn't really worry too much about fast film. They're notoriously slow.

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That's not necessarily true, have you read FEED?

Roger

you might consider getting some poorly stored junk expired cheap film
and see what development schemes will produce the best images for you,
BEFORE you buy a freezer full of film and down the road realize
the basefog is driving you crazy ...
its easy to buy a walk in freezer full of film, and just as easy to be disappointed
that you bought 10K worth of film, and it is useless ...

Why not... if that's what you want, enjoy life!

LFman said:

If a major brand name like Kodak had trouble, there's a reasonable chance Ilford had similar issues

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There is a huge difference between what was Kodak and the Ilford of today.

It appears that Ilford has taken the right course , ie, realizing that film is a viable niche product - I believe they will survive quite well. Kodak has not had a coherent strategy for over a decade and it led directly to their collapse.

Just my 2 cents.

And don't forget another difference between Kodak and IlfordPhoto . . . Ilford did not have a disappearing enormous colour-materials market to contend with, as they have only sold monochrome materials for decades (Ilfochrome wasn't a mass market product ever, and it was a different part of the original company anyway). The only people who 'understand' the Kodak strategy are sitting in it's boardroom.

Roger Thoms said:

That's not necessarily true, have you read FEED?

Roger

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No, but I'll go look at it.

ETA: Added it to my wishlist. My Kindle is going to be very, very full by Christmas. :/

Here's what I recommend stockpiling:
*Fuji Velvia 50 (rolls, Freestyle getting in a last batch of sheets soon)
Fuji Provia 100F Rolls and sheets
*Fuji Reala rolls, 120 format
Kodak Portra 160 rolls and sheets
*Kodak TXP 320 sheets
Efke KB25 rolls at Freestyle.
Also some 400 asa fuji and kodak color neg film in rolls.

I feel the most precious and endangered emulsions are Velvia 50, Kodak Portras, and Kodak TXP 4x5 and 8x10 sheets.
I feel that if you buy the above fresh, double seal airtight and freeze, you can use these emulsions for the next 20 years.

Also, put away some slower asa Ilford films as a hedge against what is sure to be price gouging once kodak and fuji drop from the market. PanF, FP4+, and Delta 100.

Also, in case you dont already know - it is IMPERATIVE that you store these in a manual defrost freezer.

You dont want to use a "frost free" or "self defrosting" freezer. (These cycle the interior temp up and down to defrost- not good for the film.

I spent a few thousand on B&W film and paper in 2006 when I came into a small amount of money. I feel very fortunate that I spent all the money on not only the film and paper but a new Rolleiflex. Everything I bought has increased incredibly in price since then. 200 sheets of 8x10 TMY is now probably more than double what I paid. The Rollei is now nearly double what I paid. 200 rolls of 120 Acros has increased and several hundred sheets of 11x14 wt paper that is now much more expensive.
I bought a smallish chest freezer that keeps my stuff about 10 below 0. The freezer works great, cost me 50 dollars off Craig's list and it doesn't cost that much in electricity since it is small and well insulated. I am very glad I did all that.
Dennis

You must be crazy. Crazy.
$10,000 worth of film!? A bit like another dude in Beverley Hills glossing and salivating over thousands of dollars of film stockpiled for D-Day. What is this about then? One thing that really sticks in my craw is people wandering around here with grandoise plans to stock up madly on film on the premise it might just ensure Fuji, Ilford, Kodak et al that there is a lively market for film, or to impress upon others an obviously higher financial plane. Apparently, they don't actually get out photographing much. By much I mean around 20 rolls a day, each day, 365 days a year, like Magnum. Nah. All just "stock the freezer, the end of film is nigh!". Quite apart from the fact that the reality of deep freeze embrittles over the longer term, time, stains and sticks and can in all probability be rendered useless in that state. Here's some advice: buy $200 worth of film now, and use it in the next month or two. Is film still there afterward? OK, go buy some more and repeat.

Ignoring the irrational judging you're copping in this thread, I suspect I'm in a similar (import-wise) situation to you, in that packages over $1k incur a tax penalty, but this is a lot less than courier fees. If you know you're going to use the film, buying early makes a lot of financial sense because of significant price rises that have and will continue to occur.

If you're definitely keen on buying $5-10k worth of film, you're talking quantities on the order of what a retail outlet or three would push in a year, which means you may be able to negotiate directly with a manufacturer to get a good discount by cutting out the distributors, wholesalers and retailers. That obviously works best if you spend the whole amount with one manufacturer, but whatever. Given their small size and human presence on APUG, if I were you I would directly contact Ilford to enquire about a bulk purchase and surface shipping. Surface shipping a pallet of goods will save you significantly over internationally air-couriering a little 5-10kg package every month.

I wouldn't stock up more than 2-3 years of colour though, and I would make sure I bought chemistry at the same time to cover me for my film stock on hand. Getting colour chemistry may become quite hard soon I think, edging towards impossible if films are not being manufactured and sold fresh. And colour chemistry (E6 especially!) does not keep well, so that kind of limits the quantity of colour film stock you might want to keep.

OTOH, RA4 chemistry is meant to keep pretty well, so I have no qualms about buying concentrate for 20L (2000 sheets) particularly because RA4 chems are so cheap. But then, I think RA4 will long outlast the other colour processes because it's used by digital photofinishers, so it's not in imminent danger of discontinuation and not worth stockpiling.

I think RA4 will long outlast the other colour processes because it's used by digital photofinishers

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Are you sure about that?

I've read all the posts in this thread including PKM's and all I have to say is that I feel very inferior... What you propose per month is what I make total in a GOOD month... I'm just blown away that you look to "being" a fine art photographer as if you aren't one yet... Which means you somehow have 2k in disposable income... I wish you luck, you obviously have a good step up from many of us, just remember the little people ...


~Stone

The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Poisson Du Jour said:

Are you sure about that?

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Yes. Get a digital Frontier print sometime, it says "Crystal Archive" on the back. And note the RA4 materials costs being so low: no way it'd be like that with just film-nerd hobbyists buying. And all the "optimized for digital exposure" (i.e. "we didn't bother to fix the crossover issues and expect you'll calibrate that out numerically") papers available. If you buy a metallic print, it's Endura Ultra Metallic, an RA4 product.

Dry labs are taking more of the market but I reckon there's a fair bit of life left in RA4 thanks to all the Frontier, Noritsu, Lightjet & Chromira machines out there.

Right, so by this count, John Sexton is a high brow fool for stocking up on 4x5 TMY / TMX and Ilford paper to both prepare for possible product loss and certain price increases.....

Poisson Du Jour said:

You must be crazy. Crazy.
$10,000 worth of film!? A bit like another dude in Beverley Hills glossing and salivating over thousands of dollars of film stockpiled for D-Day. What is this about then? One thing that really sticks in my craw is people wandering around here with grandoise plans to stock up madly on film on the premise it might just ensure Fuji, Ilford, Kodak et al that there is a lively market for film, or to impress upon others an obviously higher financial plane. Apparently, they don't actually get out photographing much. By much I mean around 20 rolls a day, each day, 365 days a year, like Magnum. Nah. All just "stock the freezer, the end of film is nigh!". Quite apart from the fact that the reality of deep freeze embrittles over the longer term, time, stains and sticks and can in all probability be rendered useless in that state. Here's some advice: buy $200 worth of film now, and use it in the next month or two. Is film still there afterward? OK, go buy some more and repeat.

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Yeah....I spent a crap load this year between getting 4x5 gear and stocking up on film, no doubt. But it is a write off and I am starting to sell work for damn good money so I feel great about it.

It's something I had planned almost 10 years ago in seeing how things were going. Now I am comfortable with my use, replenish and rotate strategy...

StoneNYC said:

I've read all the posts in this thread including PKM's and all I have to say is that I feel very inferior... What you propose per month is what I make total in a GOOD month... I'm just blown away that you look to "being" a fine art photographer as if you aren't one yet... Which means you somehow have 2k in disposable income... I wish you luck, you obviously have a good step up from many of us, just remember the little people ...


~Stone

The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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PKM-25 said:

....It's something I had planned almost 10 years ago in seeing how things were going. Now I am comfortable with my use, replenish and rotate strategy...

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1+

The deniers vs stockpilers on this thread illustrate that in life, people can be separated into two camps:

Those who realize it is their responsibility to take care of themselves and then there are those who expect that someone else is responsible for taking care of them.

This applies to everything, retirement planning, emergencies, you name it.