Thinking in Black and White (landscapes)

[JBrunner]

You say your landscapes print flat and grey. I suspect your negatives lack density and contrast.

No zoning out, huh? Well then, without explanation, here is a suggestion to try, just try it with a roll, and see what you think.

If you are shooting the film at box speed, cut it in half, so rate a 125 speed film at 64, for example. Extend your development time 20%.

See how you like that. It may be more what you are looking for. If they seem to print a little too hard, start backing the development time back.

I'd love to see your feedback on trying this.

 

[toadhall]

You've been given technical tips, and advice on seeing the 'light', all of which are valid, but may be redundant to your technical skills and vision. That said, can I ask how you define 'landscape'? Are you hoping for the grand sweep of an Adam's print, or the more intimate perspective of Caponigro's tree trunks in misty light? If you're hoping for one, but shooting the other, you'll always be disappointed. Perhaps the landscapes you've tried to shoot, aren't of a subject to which you respond emotionally? You stated you were going to Ireland in April; try a variety of 'landscape' subjects and you may discover which ones excite you and your photographs.
Good luck.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Thanks Jason -- I do rate my film a bit slower than box speed but have never gone halvers - I'll try it. In the meantime I guess I'll have to wait for your youtube version of the zone system ;-) I do know how it works in theory...for me it's one of those things that just doesn't 'click' when trying to learn it on my own (kind of like driving a standard transmission -- I know the theory of how it works, just have never done it). I think a workshop or two might help me, one where I have someone to bounce questions off of (and to show me what I'm doing wrong) -- it's just finding one that fits my schedule!

toadhall...you might be right, but as far as I am aware of myself (?!) I like grand vistas, urban landscapes, and intimate or isolating details. However, it may be a matter of being a jack of all trades and a master of none -- I should probably try to work on one type of landscape and if it really doesn't work, move onto to something else (likewise, shooting JUST in black and white would probably be better than trying to mix it up with colour). That being said, I think that works on an everyday basis, but it would be hard to limit myself in once in a lifetime situations (not that Ireland is once in lifetime...it's my second time going back and I'm already planning a third trip!). Thanks.

 

[Mark_S]

One thread posted here some weeks ago was about an experiment to get someone who is photo-jammed to just take pictures. Pick a starting place.

A couple of years ago, I felt that I had gotten into a rut and wanted to do something different photographically. I shoot mostly LF landscapes, and tend to take forever to compose and calculate exposure for each shot. I enrolled in a photo class at a local art college to try and get myself to do something different, and the teacher gave me an assignment which turned out to be great - I got a 35mm camera and was to shoot a roll of film every morning before I left for work. Didn't matter what I shot, but I had to make 36 exposures before work. Huge eye-opener for me!

 

[z3guy]

Good Idea

Your idea of only shooting in black and white is excellent. As a photo teacher I find when students are trying anyting new, be it medium format instead of 35mm or what ever, if they bring both cameras they almost always fall back to using the one they feel most comfortable with when they want to be sure "they got the shot". If you only have black and white with you it is the only choice you have and wil help you learn to see in black and white. Good luck!

Paul

 

[pentaxuser]

If this info has already appeared then I apologise. However as far as seeing in B&W you might like to look at the SRB~Griturn web site. It's a UK based site but may ship outside the U.K. It has a filter listed under accessories, I think, that you place to your eye which attempts to simulate the scene in B&W. It comes complete with eyepiece and a hole through which you can thread a neck cord so it hangs around your neck. I don't have this filter so cannot give you a personal opinion but it gets a good write-up on the Roger and Frances Photography website under B&W photography. It's mentioned in one of their books as well. I don't know if this particular module is free or paid for. Roger may be criticised for several things but he tells it like it is. If he believes its a help then it most likely is.

It's £19.95 so a bargain in euro terms. Hope this helps. At the very least it might stimulate comments from others who may have this accessory.

I hope this helps

pentaxuser

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Ansel Adams was born with a Wratten viewing filter in his pocket, so I hear.

 

[Matthew Gorringe]

Hi Moose (Canadian?),
I think you've got some good advice here. The technical stuff is the easier part to deal with, composition and "seeing" is much harder and requires lots of practice. Practice in doing but also in looking at others' photographs.

Can you identify for us some of the black and white landscapes you admire, how about urban landscapes you admire? Also, if you're feeling brave and have some scans, why not post a few images and describe how you went about making them and why you were drawn to those scenes in the first place.

What is the light like where you are now? Is it grey and overcast a lot of the time or do you get good strong directional light? Living in Australia I am used to having lots of contrast available because of our light. If I try to shoot under different conditions I am constantly disappointed by the lack of "oomph" in my photos. However many of the APUG members from the UK have wonderful landscape images shot in grey overcast conditions (sorry, I'm really not trying to rub it in). So depending on the light you have available you might need to learn to use it better in your compositions.

Have you tried shooting your city at night?

Good luck,
Matt.

 

[keithwms]

What is it that you do that makes you a good black and white landscape photographer?

Oh <blush> you're so kind to think I'm good, no really!

How did you get to the point where you are now?

Experiment. Go as far outside of your box as you can... as often as you can.

Look at it this way, if there were a winning recipe for b&w landscapes then everybody would use it and the photos would all look the same. So... if somebody could give you that recipe, would you really want to know it?

This is precisely why I haven't read any of St. Ansel's books, I feel he may have too much influence on me at this stage. I read a little snippet in his "examples" book and came to that conclusion almost immediately. Must not read Ansel, must not read Ansel! I have read and viewed much of Minor White's work- it is open and 'spiritual' enough not to exert as potent and literal an influence.... I think. Then again, I may now be a White disciple and not know it yet.

 

[Matthew Gorringe]

P.S. Some advice: walk a lot if you don't already.

 

[RobC]

P.S. Some advice: walk a lot if you don't already.

I used to walk a lot. Since I got into B+W photography I found that before I get 500 yards I've found something to photograph and I walk much less than I used to, especially when I have the 4x5 kit because of its setup time.

 

[Matthew Gorringe]

I used to walk a lot. Since I got into B+W photography I found that before I get 500 yards I've found something to photograph and I walk much less than I used to, especially when I have the 4x5 kit because of its setup time.

Yes, I know how that is. Walking without a camera can be a great way to find things you want to photograph. Public transport is another opportunity to see things that you might come back to later.

 

[stillsilver]

Moose, I second carrying only one type of film until you are comfortable with it. If you are planning a third trip to Ireland, take only b+w this trip. Bracket your shots and take notes to help you find your shooting style. (I’m the worst note-taker but they help-out when I do.) Use a tripod and your filters also.

Mike

 

[bjorke]

The short version is this: Forget the landscape, concentrate on shooting the light.

Valid advice for color too, as in this amazing 8x10 shot by Harry Kaufman.

Beware, of course, of one-liner rules. Alone, all they'll give you is one-liner pictures.

The Kaufman, for all its glow, is swimming in content and context. Consider this one:

Roger Fenton, "The Valley of the Shadow of Death," Crimea, 1855​

Beautiful light: 0
Content: 10

 

[Larry.Manuel]

Thinking B&W for landscapes.

Some suggestions:

- look for forms and textures. That helps me see without colour.
- go out in the early hours after dawn, or before sunset, the light can be inspiring and magical.
- take advantage of unusual atmospheric events: rain, snow, fog, special clouds, moonrise/set, reflections off water, puddles, ice, glass.
- deeply overcast days have very soft light, and can be used to advantage.
- look for tiny landscapes, medium ones, and vast ones.
- don't be a slave to a guru; see for yourself.

Good luck.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Color film's strength is rendering in vibrant and vivid colors.
Black and white film's strength, contrast and form.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Thanks guys -- so much advice, so little time...

I have a three-year backlog of black and white negs that I am currently trying to print (mostly work prints) -- until recently, they were not processed by yours truly -- it's tough trying to combine working with old negs and new ones at the same time. I doing a bit of a combination of both at the moment which is helping me realize where my problems are. One problem I've noticed is the lack of sharpness in some of my photos (no more handholding wide open!!) -- which is partly due to the old cameras I use, and maybe development. I really need to work on the strengths and weaknesses of each of my cameras/lenses and what subjects work best with them. Another problem is sucky light -- I think I tend to use black and white when it's overcast (since it's not great for colour) BUT, not great light = not great photos (at least for me). Finally, I just need to spend more time in the darkroom -- and until I have my own, those skills are just going to come along slowly. Anyway, I really don't have easy access to a scanner at the moment so there isn't any way I can post my work here (not that I have a lot of prints to scan anyway). Sorry about that.

As for photogs I admire, I have to admit that I'm a big fan of Michael Kenna. I just discovered him a few months ago (!), and the way he approaches his subjects really appeals to me. Interestingly enough, they're selling prints of his at the gallery here in Nancy, and there's an exhibition of his work in Metz. I definitely will have to go by (not buy -- don't think I can afford them!) and see his work. By contrast, I am NOT a fan of St. Ansel. I respect him as a technician, and what he did for photography, but not as a photographer. His photos leave a lot to be desired for me. But that's just me, and I've never seen any of his prints in real life. Similarly, I have his books, I try to go through them, but they just don't grab me the same way Tim Rudman does (for example) -- I have all four of his books and have read them many times over in the past few months. I think I've learned more about good printing from Tim than I have in almost two years of darkroom classes (in Canada and now in France).

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that when I want to create a good landscape photo that I need to ask myself three questions every time:

1. What is the subject? (simplify!!!)
2. Why I am taking this photo? (the light? the subject? "I was here and this is the best I could do with the time and conditions"?)
3. How am I going to make this a good image? (tripod, film choice, filter choice, aperture setting, etc).

Anyway, that's my goal for the moment.

Oh yeah -- I do walk, every day, around 10km to and from work, sometimes more. There are a lot of things I want to photograph along the way but I'm just waiting for better light -- it seems that whenever I have a camera in hand there's nothing for me to shoot, and when I don't (usually because I'm stuck inside at work) there's amazing light outside.

So that's it for now -- this post is getting long! Cheers everyone.