Thinking about trading my 11x14 for 8x10...

Ryan,

My 7 x 17 Wisner tech...weighs less than my Wista double extension 8 x 10 (Wista a little less than 12 lbs)....also a 5 x 7 back is sweet on a 7 x 17, also 7 x 11 film works and is a nice format and easier on the pocketbook....I have seen the Wehman and am very impressed with it, I did not know he built 7 x 17 cameras, Richard Ritter has a nice one that looks good...haven t seen it in person but on his website the photo shows a very practical and well thought out camera.

just checked his web site...the 7 x 17 camera is 10 lbs, has 34 inches of bellows and all movements...

Hi Ryan. Just some random thoughts. No matter the size, I have to like the camera. To some that may sound really foolish. I get teased a lot, and rightly so. I've had mountains of equipment moving in and out of Tonopah Nevada since I discovered EBAY 5 or 6 years ago. (I'm personally keeping the USPS & UPS solvent in Tonopah NV.) Oddly, my list of cameras I DON'T like is pretty short. I don't like Cambo 8X10's, I don't like Agfa 8X10's although I tried twice, and I'm afraid the venerable Burke & James is on the short list. They're just too clunky I guess. Unwieldly? It's not a class issue with me. Honest. I'm having a love affair with the homeliest of Kodak 2D 8X10's. It's light, balanced, well engineered, and frankly because of the Packard inside, it doubles as THE field camera for most of the "portable" portrait lenses. Nobody's impressed when they see it, but a few folks have been impressed with what it does.

So thinking out loud, I'm wondering if the problem is the camera more than the format. A couple of evenings ago I bought a lovely Seneca 11X14. It's lighter than my Deardorff 8X10 and it's elegant both to look at and in use.

I just figure with EBAY it's fairly easy to have lots of things coming and then going again if they don't seem to hit my 'like' button. The worst you can do is lose a couple of bucks. Usually with a bath and a proper ad, I end up with a small profit instead of a loss. So keep those holders and buy something pretty.

Jim,

You are totally correct. The Burke and James 11x14 is VERY large and clunky and it's very slow to use. I'm sure if I could afford a lightweight, compact ULF camera, I would be loving it alot more!

After seeing this B&J's camera, I've determined that the camera was not built or designed by a working photographer. There is many things on the camera that WORK, and work PERFECTLY WELL, but they are a pain in the butt to use! Things such as the rear movements on the camera, where you need to remove the whole back to move it into a different grove to use tilt, or how you need to remove 4 screws and 3 knobs to use the rear swings or shift.

Don't get me wrong, It's a VERY well made camera and is built like a tank, however its not very user friendly when working in the field.

Its funny you mention you dislike CAMBO 8x10 cameras, since my 8x10 is a Cambo/calumet monorail camera! Yes, its a pain to use and is made for the studio, but I find it simple to use and is built very strong. However, I know there is several better 8x10 cameras to be using.

jimgalli said:

Oddly, my list of cameras I DON'T like is pretty short. I don't like Cambo 8X10's, I don't like Agfa 8X10's although I tried twice, and I'm afraid the venerable Burke & James is on the short list. They're just too clunky I guess. Unwieldly? It's not a class issue with me.

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I don't like any camera that I can't get Fuji Velvia for.

Ryan, the 7 x 17 is actually a Phillips and it is a fantastic camera. It is lightweight and 'manageable' in the field. Really fun to use.

There is a reason they were called Burke and Jerks.

Scott Peters said:

Ryan, the 7 x 17 is actually a Phillips and it is a fantastic camera. It is lightweight and 'manageable' in the field. Really fun to use.

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Ryan, Scott speakuth's the truth in regard to Dicks camera design. I've had one of his 11x14 models for about two years now and as I read about your frustration like many others that purchase older vintages, I'm glad I bit the bullet and bought a modern designed camera in this size.

I talked with a couple of people from the VC conference that shoot a Phillips 7x17 and they share the same affection that scott does for the design Dick uses.

Dick does help buyers looking for used cameras find sellers, you should phone him if your interested hes very helpful and accessible.

good luck,
Mike

Good luck,
Mike

Ryan~ I just ran across this thread. If you're still in Tucson, give me a call or drop me an e-mail. marksawyer@earthlink.net

~ Mark

I had an 11x14 B&J, but my reason for giving it up was the cost of the film holders. Since you have 8 of those ever-lovin' darlings it sounds like you're sitting pretty. The one other thing I didn't like about the B&J was the knobs that stuck waaaay out there, fowling up on branches and everything else in the woods. Don't get me wrong---its a great camera for indoor or out of the trunk shooting, but for hiking it is, as you've observed, awkward.

If I ever win the lottery, I've got this fantasy about getting an 11x14 Deardorff field camera--clamshell design just like my 8x10---now that would be a peach of an 11x14!

I only want to say that I always called those ULF people to a highway photographer and of course got some angry people on me! The heavy equipment does slow things down and the only way to get it around it’s a car! Your problem begins when your motive is behind that hill where no roads lead to! Should I walk or should I not? Of course you don’t do that because you are not mobile with those heavy equipment so the next step is taking photographs from the roads and that is nothing else but the tourist pictures or outside of your studio of walls and plant’s growing on walls, bottles, and so on! Of course they are images which suck so than again you beginning to produce Platinum, Gums to make that image more interesting! But are they good? Interesting? No!

I like Weston but pepper Nr 121 and all that others between I find it not very interesting, stimulating. And definitely not showing lot creativity!

You may consider this too! When you step up you loose a lot’s of other thing too like those lenses with different characters as if you are a bloody photographer you probably know it now that they are differences which you can use on your way to artistic expressions! If you know how of course!

And there is a little other thing too! The happiest I where when I had a 35 mm camera took it everywhere with me all the time! Than I went up to 4x5 and than a tripod move into my life so as a bigger enlarger! Now I’m on 8x10 and it’s more complicated as ever! Bigger tripod, bigger camera, bigger holders, bigger lenses. So, that means shorter walk and lower climbing!
I almost forgot to mention my bigger enlarger as contact printing is okay folks but I do vanna have my fingers between. Sorry about this but I’m an old fashioned man! Otherwise I can by a digital camera and printer!

Now I finally settle down with two 8x10,s and let me tell you the truth! I use the one which is a lightest the old Seneca that wooden thing because my Tachi is heavy like stone!

Also one more little thing before I close this down! I’m a little bit tired of this camera discussion as it leads nowhere! I hate digital because it’s an easy way in or out for those whom didn’t have any knowledge of photography and the traditional photographic art.
And also you must understand somewhere that camera doesn’t make any photographer It’s your image what is make you who you are! I have shut image with my 35 mm which beet any of my 8x10 but not the one which made with my 4x5!!!!! How about that?

I DIDN*T MEANT THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF IT! I MEANT WHAT I WANT TO SAY WITH MY IMAGE! AND IF THE IMAGE CAPTURE PEOPLES ATTENTION THAT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH CAMERA YOU I USED TO GET THERE!!! DO'NT GET ME WRONG!

So I just decided that I shut anything with everything or everything with anything!

Uraniumnitrate- this is a pure poison is isn’t it?

What have you been smoking?....

Donsta said:

What have you been smoking?....

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Hope he will share.......

Ryan go back to using your previous camera. Even with the small negatives, you should ,if your are careful, be able to produce a good quality 8x10.

Donsta said:

What have you been smoking?....

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I thought you would like to know that but I meant what the image is saying! I didn't meant the qality!!!!
But it's possible to achive technicly good quality with smaller size too! Nowdays I only care what I wanna say and pass over to others with my image and that is not grain and take the camera what ever is closest to my FINGERS at the time!

Jorge said:

Hope he will share.......

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Sure why not? can you handle it?

I think ULF is actually quite transportable but it depends on how how much you're willing to invest in the logistics of packing the beast around though. It is definately slower going. I place limits on how many film holders and lenses I can take (no problem---I only have two 12x20 holders anyway and both my lenses are close in focal length, differing only in contrast) The truly awkward part is the heavy tripod, but if I really want to get a shot on 12x20 I can almost always find a way to do it. Vittorio Sella took a ULF that shot glass plates to the top of the alps---certainly we can be at least as creative when it comes to problem solving!

For me anyway, problem solving is part of the fun of ULF.

"I'm blaming this mainly on the bulk and weight of using the larger camera. "

Congratulations. You're the first person I can recall who blames it all on the equipment and then goes on to make a good case for it really being the equipment (or, more accurately, problems encountered in using the equipment).

This year I purchased a 8x20. much bigger and harder to handle than a 8x10. taking photos is different to. But then I thought back to when I went from 4x5 to 8x10 and how the same situations occured (not finding good shots and everything just wasn't working right). I didn't find any good photos at first and it was harder to handle. Now I feel that my 8x10 is small and almost like using a 4x5. It takes time I think to change fromats and size and feel somewhat comfortable. If traveling is a problem use the smaller formats to give you that freedom. For the first time I used my 2 1/4 camera in years at a freinds house to just poke around his back yard. I got some great shots. Not that I couldn't have gotten them with a 8x10 but it was 98 deg outside and drinking gin and tonics I didn't feel like dragging it out of the truck so I used the 2/14 and a tripod he lent me and played around. What I learned was that I woud have never gotten those shots it I had not pulled out the little camera. He told me some of the palms I photographed were trimed the next day, so coming back was n't a option.
I think you will find all the cameras have their place and the 11x14 will fall into it's place soon enough.

Regards Mike A

After using the camera for quite awhile longer, I have determined that its not the fact of shooting with a heavy ULF that has made me want to stick with 8x10...but rather the design and function of this camera that I dislike using and does not really fit my needs. Second, the 11x14 image size is not really to my liking. Panoramic (8x20 in particular) fit my needs and vision much better then 11x14 does. Even back when I used to make enlargments, I would avoid 11x14 print size because it was not to my liking.

Ive been looking thru an 8x20 camera for the past month, and think I will change to that format soon. 8x10 is still a great format, and will stick with that for the time being.

Anyone interested in my 11x14 camera, its still available for sale or trade. Some people would really love this size...so I hope it can go to someone that can really make use of it!

All the best,

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net