thinking about medium format...

Ralph Javins · Jul 5, 2009

BimmerJake said:
so i think i will get the development equipment soon (next couple of weeks) and start practicing on my 35mm film.

Good morning, Jake;

If you are just beginning to work on developing your own 35 mm B&W film, you will hear people talking about it taking some time to develop (yes, that is a bit of a pun here) the knack of getting your 35 mm film onto the developing tank reels. If you are thinking of using stainless steel reels, I suggest looking at the Hewes brand of stainless steel reels. Their method of holding onto the cut end of the film is one of the easiest to make work in the dark or inside a changing bag. It is one way to reduce a source of frustration in beginning to use film developing equipment, especially with 35 mm film.

A two reel tank for 35 mm will also hold one reel for 120 film. If you are developing only one reel of 35 mm film, put the second reel in also to help hold the reel with film in place while you invert the tank for agitation.

John Koehrer · Jul 6, 2009

paul ron said:
Hand held meters are more accurate than metered finders. Besides most of em use old 1.3v silver batteries that are hard to get in the USA.

Older meters use the 1.35V battery but can be modified or used with an adapter to convert for new battery
Most newer meters use AA, 9V or MS76/SR44 type batteries.
If you don't want to spend a lot of $$$. Pick up a used Gossen or Sekonic. Both reliable brands with many models to choose from.
If you don't need flash meter function, you can save some money but the price differential isn't really that great.

BimmerJake · Jul 14, 2009

so... allow me to revive this thread

i was almost definitely going with an rb67 when i started to really fall in love with 6x6.

the c330 seems like a pretty good option, any other thoughts?

Sirius Glass · Jul 14, 2009

I inherited a C330 with three lenses and a prism. I never liked the camera a a kid. As an adult I found the fiddle factor too high. It was very slow to set up. After about a dozen rolls of film I went to Hasselblad. YMMV

The C330 allows you to change lenses and the bellows are good for close up photographs. If you can find a Paraminder, get it. The Paraminder allows you to set up the composition and focus in the upper lens and then crank the camera up on the tripod so that the lower lens is in the right position.

Others here love the camera. It is a matter of taste. Try a few rolls and see if you like it.

Steve

bdial · Jul 14, 2009

They are a good option. They are heavy and big for a TLR because of the lens interchangability and bellows focusing, but those are atributes too.

Then there are the fixed lens TLR's from Rollei, Yashica, Minolta, plus several other lesser ones.

For SLR's Bronicas are popular, not to mention Rollei, and Hasselblad, of course.

My preference is Hasselblad and Rollei, but there are many good choices.

In the bangs/buck equation, it would be hard to do better than a C330.

BimmerJake · Jul 14, 2009

would it be worth saving longer a getting a hasselblad 500c?

c.w. · Jul 14, 2009

aldevo said:
The great thing about B&W development is that you can easily get started for about $70 with reels, a tank, and a changing bag.

$70?! That seems a bit steep for a beginner. For about $35 shipped you can get everything you need for B&W. An Arista plasic tank that works for 35mm and 120, D-76, and fixer. Substitute a dark room for a changing bag, use water for a stop bath and you're pretty much good to go. I use that tank quite a bit, the only weird thing about it is you might want to get a couple extra clips for doing 120 so the reel doesn't work itself up toward the top of the tank.

BimmerJake · Jul 14, 2009

a generous member of apug sent me a tank, reels, and changing bag for free to help me get started. another member is sending measuring equipment and some other bits a pieces for the cost of shipping. so i'm off to a good start for free so far. i did have to buy chemicals and film thought

Sirius Glass · Jul 14, 2009

BimmerJake said:
would it be worth saving longer a getting a hasselblad 500c?

I think so. I started with the C330 with the 65mm, 80mm and 250mm lenses.

I never felt that the 65mm was wide enough of a wide angle lens.

With the Hasselblad, I started with the 50mm, 80mm and 250mm. Then I got GAS [Gadget Acquisition Syndrome] and added the 150mm lens and then extension tubes for close ups. The GAS got worse an I got the SWC 903 [38mm lens]. <<sigh>>

What every you buy, watch out for GAS.

Back to your question. If I were you, I would save a little longer and get a Hasselblad CM or CX with an 80mm CF lens. Maybe add a prism if you want a built in light meter or you can't stand following a subject because of the left-right reversal that both the C330 and the Hasselblad have when used with a waist level finder [wlf].

Ask your questions and let us know what you decide.

Steve

BimmerJake · Jul 14, 2009

does the hasselblad need a specific back for 6x6? on keh some of them specify 6x6 and some don't, i was under the impression that they all were. am i wrong?

polyglot · Jul 14, 2009

The Hasselblad A12 back is 6x6 for 120 and the A24 back is 6x6 for 220.

PS: great deal you got on the developing gear! In terms of measuring equipment, I just use kitchen scales, 5mL and 20mL syringes (for washaid and Rodinal) and a 500mL pyrex jug (for measuring fixer and D-76 and making up developer).

MattKing · Jul 14, 2009

BimmerJake said:
so... allow me to revive this thread

i was almost definitely going with an rb67 when i started to really fall in love with 6x6.

the c330 seems like a pretty good option, any other thoughts?

I've been using my C330 since the late 1970s.

A C330 with a 65mm and 135mm is a nice compact kit with a lot of versatility.

If you ad accessories like a left hand trigger grip and a paramender it is very flexible. As far as I am concerned, it is very intuitive to use. It also is particularly easy to use if you are, like me, left-handed.

If you need an extensive range of lenses, reliable TTL metering, interchangeable backs and a host of other, system camera attributes, than a Hasselblad will fill those needs better, but at a fairly high cost.

Here's an example of a shot taken on my backup body - a C220 - using Rollei IR film, an R72 filter and the 65mm lens (IR work is a lot easier with a Mamiya TLR than a Hasselblad):

Matt

Sirius Glass · Jul 15, 2009

MattKing said:
Here's an example of a shot taken on my backup body - a C220 - using Rollei IR film, an R72 filter and the 65mm lens (IR work is a lot easier with a Mamiya TLR than a Hasselblad):

I agree. A R72 filter is a bit hard to see through.

Steve

John Koehrer · Jul 16, 2009

The biggest disadvantage to Hasselblad is the cost of additional lenses. I think you can figure 2X or more compared to Mamiya RB. You could also consider Bronica if 6X6 is your goal.

BimmerJake · Aug 20, 2009

REVIVAL!!!!

anyway... so i'm set on 6x6 and probably mamiya due to cost. i don't see any real reason to go to the c330 over the c220 in my case. any thoughts or experiences that might change my way of thinking?

lens question... for the mamiya tlr line there are three types of lenses? chrome, black, and black s? can someone explain the differences? i assume the "s" is a better coated lens? the chrome lenses are smaller? does this effect the image quality? chrome seems to be cheaper and since cost is a consideration i'm curious if there are major differences.

thanks again

MattKing · Aug 20, 2009

Chrome Mamiya C lenses are older, and there are few if any parts available for the shutters.

I'm not sure that I knew that there were "s" lenses .

The very best reason to get a C330 is that winding the film also serves to cock the in-lens shutters (for all but the 250mm lens).

The very best reason to get a C220 is that it is lighter and simpler.

There are other reasons as well, but IMHO those are the most important.

I have both .

Matt

BimmerJake · Aug 21, 2009

from what i can gather the "s" lenses are multi coated, but some of the regular black lenses might be too. no one seems to really know, not even Mamiya

any experience with the chrome and image quality?

thanks

Sirius Glass · Aug 21, 2009

The Black lenses are better than the Chrome lenses. The Black lenses are newer and probably easier to get service on them.

Steve

Venchka · Aug 22, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
The Black lenses are better than the Chrome lenses. The Black lenses are newer and probably easier to get service on them.

Steve

That may be true. I owned a C-3something in 1969. My negatives have more than enough sharpness and detail. It's hard to imagine better lenses.

I guess I'm trying to say that the older lenses aren't inferior. The age and repairability may be concerns. Image quality is not a concern.

YMMV

David Grenet · Aug 22, 2009

According to Dead Link Removed only the 80mm has an "S" variant, the 105mm has "D" and "DS" variants, and the 180mm has a "Super" variant (I have one of those).

He also says "Some, but certainly not all, black lenses have optical multi-coatings. Exactly what coatings were applied and to which lenses is a matter of debate. Given the number of years of production this isn't too surprising."

I think the ones that have a blue dot on the cocking lever probably are multicoated as they are newer, but I don't know for sure...

AgentX · Aug 22, 2009

Chrome lenses are sharp; if the shutter's working well, you have an excellent optic. Can't speak to repair/availability issues myself.

The reason I prefer my black lenses is the handling. Chrome lenses set the aperture with a very thin metal pointer (no click stops) on the left hand side of the lens, and the shutter speed with a dial visible from the front of the camera. Neither is easy to see from the top of the camera.

Black lenses use a tab (and on the most recent, click stops) to turn the aperture ring; apertures and shutter speeds are both visible from the waist-level viewing position on the left-hand side of the lens. It's a more modern and robust setup.

330 v 220 is a matter of choice. The 220 has a dim stock screen which is not designed to be user-interchangeable, and a REALLY annoying focusing hood apparently designed by an octopus. The 330 hood is far superior. It's a marginally heavier camera, though. Manual shutter cocking isn't a huge deal unless you're using other cameras that have it, in which case you often forget to cock on the -220.

Both are available pretty cheaply. And you can put a 330 hood on a 220.

BimmerJake · Aug 22, 2009

thanks guys, this info is really helpful.

dancqu · Aug 25, 2009

BimmerJake said:
i was almost definitely going with an rb67 when i started
to really fall in love with 6x6.

The square format has a couple of not so obvious advantages.

One, the camera is always upright; good for quick shots. Also,
when on a tripod, the camera is well balanced and a WL
view finder all that is needed.

Two, when making prints the image on the easel is always
upright.

Neither advantage applies to other than the square format.
For example, with my 6x4.5 I pack a rotary view finder and
for portrait format must tilt the camera 90 degrees. The RZ
can be used with WL finder and the camera is used upright.
In the darkroom though the portrait image is 90 degrees
from upright.

I'd have returned to 6x6 several years ago had the lens
focal length selection been more to my liking. Whatever
the camera selected be sure it's lens selection
suits you. Dan

BimmerJake · Aug 25, 2009

thanks for the input, i'm having a hard time trying to think of reasons not to go 6x6. i'm pretty comfortable with the c220/c330 lens collection. i can't think of any focal lengths that i couldn't cover with mamiya's system.

thinking about medium format...

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polyglot

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