Thinking about medium format SLRs

ntenny · Mar 27, 2011

I've got a little bit of GAS, I guess, but I'm also noticing a real lacuna in my arsenal of equipment: Although MF is my preferred format most of the time, I have no way to shoot MF quickly with the benefit of a meter. (My good MF camera is a meterless Rolleiflex; obviously I can carry around a handheld meter, but it slows things down and occupies an extra hand, which is a big deal when you're also managing a three-year-old.) Also, TLRs have the obvious parallax issues close-up, and the Rolleiflex is something of a family heirloom that I don't always want to take into the field, and so forth and so on.

I know the problems with in-camera metering and I don't mind them. I can always use an external meter if I'm worrying about exposure at that level of detail, but the vast majority of the time I'm comfortable with the in-camera alternative, so let's skip that argument for this thread.

As a number of MF SLRs are now going dirt cheap, I'm thinking I may need to pick one up. However, I don't know much about them and am trying to sort out what the realistic options are. Here are the non-negotiable hard criteria:

* Capable of 6x6
* Metering (autoexposure not necessary)
* Handholdable (within reason)

I like waistlevel finders but can live with a prism. Hasselblads are out due to the cost of lenses and accessories---even if I got a fantastic deal up front, I'd never be able to afford a second lens! Besides, I'm a reverse snob.

As far as I can tell, my major options are the SQ series, RB/RZ, and the Pentax 6x7 monsters, with some oddballs like the Pentacon Six and Kiev. Any comments on how these options compare as "walking around" cameras? (I have the impression that the SQ is probably the most handholdable, and the Pentax is probably way more camera than I want to mess with, but I've never worked with any of these.)

Thanks

-NT

heespharm · Mar 27, 2011

Hasselblad 500cm with metering prism I picked one up for about 500

APLJ · Mar 27, 2011

Pentax 645? It's hard to beat Hasselblad for a 6x6 SLR.

Paul Sorensen · Mar 27, 2011

Since you are looking for a "walking around camera" and want 6X6 or larger, I think your best bet would be a hassy. If you are looking for something more affordable, you will probably need to compromise somewhere. If you are willing to compromise negative size, the Pentax or Mamiya 645s might be good options. Actually, the Bronica SQ might be a decent option, but I don't know about metering and I also think that they are somewhat less available/common than the others.

Edit: I think with metering, you are going to be looking at a prism, I don't believe that any of these cameras meters through the body at all.

CGW · Mar 27, 2011

You've kinda boxed yourself in. Ergonomics of a 6x6 tricked out your way aren't going to be great. A Bronica SQ-A/Ai with a manual speed winder and metered prism is about it in a widely-available/affordable camera. You might consider a 645 like a Bronica, Pentax or Mamiya. These are very close in size and weight to a late model 35mm pro camera. Good glass on all. Prices are attractive, too.

MattKing · Mar 27, 2011

An RB67 with a metering prism is quite large. Even with the metering chimney finder it is quite large.

I'd suggest expanding your criteria to include 6 x 4.5.

2F/2F · Mar 27, 2011

I don't think it will help you much. No need to spend the money. If you use a hand held incident meter, you can get into the habit of remetering and resetting your camera whenever you walk into a different type of light, then your camera will already be set, and metering won't slow you down. Plus there is the obvious benefit that you will get great exposures all the time, which an in-camera meter will have a hard time giving you. Plus, how much time to you need to hold up an incident meter and get an aperture or shutter speed? About 5 seconds. Using an in-camera meter takes about as long. If James Nachtwey had the time use a hand held incident meter while shooting a war, we have time to use them here in the States in our day-to-day lives.

All this being said, I think Hassy and Bronica SQ are your best choices.

Ric Trexell · Mar 27, 2011

Incident meters slow you down?

I think after awhile you will get so you can judge the light pretty good just by experience. If you stay with one film speed and are shooting outside on a sunny day, you will notice the meter will hold real close to the sunny 16 rule. Maybe a cloud will come out and the meter will suggest f/11 but unless you are not using slide film, that little bit is not going to be a problem, especially if you are shooting b/w film. I have the RB's but would not suggest them as the great handheld camera. I would go with those that say a Hassy or a 6.45.

CGW · Mar 27, 2011

Do incident meters slow you down?

Depends on the meter. I have a little Sekonic 308 that's near-perect for a quick incident readings when I'm out stumbling around with meterless MF cameras. Then there's the big, honking Sekonic 558 with its spot meter, twin ISO settings, and memory/averaging buttons that can get in the way, thanks to its size and features. I love 'em both, but the little 308 really is a superb meter for people who hate meters--or who think they can do without one. For me, they really are necessary to get the most from your MF gear.

Sirius Glass · Mar 27, 2011

A Hasselblad V series with a PME [pentaprism with a built in light meter] will easily fit you needs and get rid of the left-right reversal of the WLF. That is what I use.

Follow the advise from Packard: Ask the man that owns one! OR in the case of sly: Ask the woman that owns one!

Steve

PhotoJim · Mar 27, 2011

The Bronica SQ-series is worth a look. I have an SQ-A and an SQ-B. The -A and -AI support in-camera metering if you buy the right prism. The waist-level finder is unmetered but really convenient for street-type photography. I haven't bought a speed grip yet, but I probably should as they seem to improve the handling considerably.

I'd rather have a 'blad, but the Bronica offers much better value for money and the lenses are terrific.

gandolfi · Mar 27, 2011

Exacta 66?

one for sale here:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=73313

otherwise buy your self a Rolleiflex SL 66 "E" or "SE"....

(Beats hassel any day...;-))

brucemuir · Mar 27, 2011

For me one of the huge attractions of 6x6 is wlf and like quite a few have mentioned, you can meter as you approach or guess and you are good with neg film.

I do have a non metered prism finder and also a non metered chimney finder that is used for macro and slow paced stuff but these rarely get used.

WLF with a 'blad keeps things light and agile for me. Prisms are hardly worth the weight imo except for tripod work.

Dave Ludwig · Mar 27, 2011

For walking around-Bronica GS1 (6x7) is my preference, easy to hand hold but also suggest Pentacon 6 (have one and love it).

paul ewins · Mar 27, 2011

For your criteria the only objections to the P67 would be the fiddly film loading (takes practice to do it quickly) and the fact that you are shooting a rectangular format, not square so there may be some inherent film wastage. Ergonomically it really is just an upsized 35mm SLR and a P67 with standard lens is a couple of pounds lighter (nearly 40%) than an RB67 with lens. The Pentax lenses are faster (105/2.4, 75AL/2.8, 90/2.8, 150/2.8, 165/2.8) and go wider (35 fisheye and 45/4) and the shutter is faster (1/1000 vs 1/400). Having said that, if you really love the square format the Bronica SQ might be the best bet.

PentaxBronica · Mar 27, 2011

You can buy a metered prism finder for the Bronica along with a speed grip or motor wind IIRC. Fit those and it handles much like a giant 35mm SLR.

I do see a fair amount of their 6x6 gear for sale as well as the 645 models.

The Pentax 6x7 is a heavy beast by all accounts, if you want one then try to get the model with mirror lock up as this will help a lot when using it at lower shutter speeds on a tripod. Again, metered prisms are available. Only reason I didn't buy one is that even heavily used and battered examples seem to go for more here than a minty ETRSi, and lenses are equally expensive. I found an optically perfect 200mm for my ETRSi for £80, from what I see you'd pay almost double that for a 6x7 equivalent.

hpulley · Mar 27, 2011

I walk around with my RB67 all the time or use it "on location" as they say rather than in studio. In fact I never use it in studio and hardly ever put it on a tripod, that just isn't how I shoot most of the time. It isn't as light as a TLR but it is completely hand holdable. I use a neck strap and the flash bracket which doubles as a left handed grip. I carry a camera bag with another couple of lenses, an extra film back, Polaroid back and film. You can get a metered prism or metered chimney finder, I don't think there is a metered WLF. There are 6x7, 6x6, 6x45, 6x8, ready load, Polaroid and other backs available for it.

ntenny · Mar 27, 2011

To reiterate, Hasselblads and 645 systems are Just Not On. I shoot squares, dammit, and while I believe that 'blads have all (or *almost* all) of the many virtues attributed to them, I'm just not up for buying into a system that expensive. And while I've shot lots of film on sunny-16 principles, I'm not good enough to do it with slide film, which lately I'm shooting a lot of while the opportunity still exists.

To those who have used some of the plausible candidates, I'm curious what shutter speeds you feel like you can comfortably use handheld with a normal lens. That's one of my big fears about the Pentax 67---you see people suggest that it's dodgy past about 1/125 or even 1/250, which would be kind of limiting in low light or with slow film.

I find I'm leaning viscerally towards the SQ, so I'd be willing to hear more "travellers' tales" of what using one as a walk-around camera is like.

Thanks

-NT

2F/2F · Mar 27, 2011

ntenny said:
To reiterate, Hasselblads and 645 systems are Just Not On. I shoot squares, dammit, and while I believe that 'blads have all (or *almost* all) of the many virtues attributed to them, I'm just not up for buying into a system that expensive. And while I've shot lots of film on sunny-16 principles, I'm not good enough to do it with slide film, which lately I'm shooting a lot of while the opportunity still exists.

To those who have used some of the plausible candidates, I'm curious what shutter speeds you feel like you can comfortably use handheld with a normal lens. That's one of my big fears about the Pentax 67---you see people suggest that it's dodgy past about 1/125 or even 1/250, which would be kind of limiting in low light or with slow film.

I find I'm leaning viscerally towards the SQ, so I'd be willing to hear more "travellers' tales" of what using one as a walk-around camera is like.

Thanks

-NT

I think that a suggestion for the Hassy can effectively be taken as a suggestion for the SQ. One is simply a more affordable near-clone of the other. Some people just don't think to mention them when mentioning Hassies.

Using an SQ as a walk around camera is a lot like using a Hassy as a walk around camera. Maybe even more enjoyable, as they might be a bit lighter.

haplo602 · Mar 28, 2011

I am with the 645 crowd here (I do own an ETRSi). They are the smallest and fastest of the bunch.

Anyway I do use an old calcu-flash-II meter for both ambient and flash. it is actualy faster for me than to check the incident meter reading with each exposure and check if it won't need compensation . you only need to meter when light changes.

marco.taje · Mar 28, 2011

Nathan, if you "do not want" a Hasselblad, that's ok. I don't want to insist on the matter, but if you stick to C lenses, you will find them for cheap. You have to pay more attention when buying, as they are old lenses, but they work like a charm (for certain tonalities, even better than their newer counterparts).

Just a thingy to think about.
Ciao

stillsilver · Mar 28, 2011

You can get a metered prism for the SQ's. A hand held meter takes very little time to use. I have a SQ with a WLF, a Minolta autometer IIIF and a 4 year old. Neither have gotten too far away.

Mike

TareqPhoto · Mar 28, 2011

I highly recommend you to get Hasselnica SQ or Broblad 500, any will serve you very well!!!

Good luck!!!

hpulley · Mar 28, 2011

I commonly shoot 1/60th hand held for wide angle 65mm, 1/125 for 90mm or 127mm and 1/250 for 180mm on my RB67. It turns out very sharp enlarged to 11x14", no complaints about sharpness at all. This means that 100 ISO film is usable in good light and 400 in poor light outdoors or 3200 indoors without a flash with the fastest lenses (the grain is fine with medium format).

aparat · Mar 28, 2011

I've been using a Pentacon Six camera since the early 1990s and absolutely love it. Once you get used to some of its quirks, you're going to have a very good experience. A few years ago I got a mirror lock-up feature added, which made it even more useable. The biggest flaw for new users is the non-100% viewfinder. Of course, for more serious and professional work, a hasselblad is the most suitable and widely recommended.

Thinking about medium format SLRs

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