Thin negatives Fomapan400 4x5

Guille Ibanez · Jun 12, 2021

Hi everyone,

So first time shooting 4x5 and I chose Fomapan 400 to learn as it's the most 'economical'. I have shot 8 exposures and developed with monobath CineStill DF96. I have used this monobath on 120mm Fomapan 100 successfully in the past. However all of these sheets are coming out thin, massively underexposed. Have I underexposed all 8 frames!

So on your expert opinion, where's the problem here? This was shot at ISO400 f22 1/30 I'm doing something really wrong but not sure at which part. the DF96 was 27degrees with 4mins (as i have developed 4 rolls before) constant agitation on a SPP-445 tank.

Thanks in advance!

Paul Howell · Jun 12, 2021

Do you shoot at box speed? Most shoot Foma 400 at 200, never used DF96 so don't know if you need to increase the time. I shoot Foma 200 at box speed and develop in a number of developers including D76 ID11 with good results.

Guille Ibanez · Jun 12, 2021

Paul Howell said:
Do you shoot at box speed? Most shoot Foma 400 at 200, never used DF96 so don't know if you need to increase the time. I shoot Foma 200 at box speed and develop in a number of developers including D76 ID11 with good results.

Thanks Paul.

Yes all were shot at box speed but since then I have been reading a bit about it and yes most people seem to recommend to shoot iso200. I 'm gonna run a test now in my garden shooting at 200 and see. As for DF96, you need to increase 15seconds per developed roll and i had developed 4 rolls hence the 4 minutes developing time. I have in mind to order some D76 this week though.
I'll post results from this afternoon later/tomorrow

gone · Jun 12, 2021

They look like they're possibly over developed, but it's impossible to know from just an online jpg. In 35mm form, my Foma 400 likes to be shot at 200-250. Just a thought, but have you checked the shutter speeds? 4x5 cameras usually have old shutters and lenses that are usually running at least a stop slow, although I've seen 'em run fast at slower speeds too.

This film really looks great in D76 full strength, and it would be prudent to buy it in the old tins and paper packages off fleabay or somewhere. By all means try the Foma 100. Wonderful film. The Freestyle Arista EDU films are rebranded Foma I think, and they're a little cheaper to buy.

radiant · Jun 12, 2021

Based on my latest adventures I'm pretty sure you have underexposed heavily. That is not even 1 stop, but maybe 2-3 stops. Development density looks OK based on the sky. How did you measure the scene? Your sky looks to be in midtones so that also suggest underexposure.

I personally would not use monobath developers.

I've shot Foma 400 at ISO 640 and got really usable frames.

Nicholas Lindan · Jun 12, 2021

Another vote for ASA/ISO/EI 200 & D-76. Monobaths are touchy and iffy things - they work great under some circumstances but deviate a tiny bit and they stop working. Chinese "Kodak" D-76 seems to be going through fits of problems, try Ilford ID-11 instead.

As Vedostuu mentioned, the negative looks very underexposed. Try test shots at Sunny-11 - or make sure your meter reads 1/200 at f11 for a sunlit subject (it never brightens up to Sunny-16 in Cleveland, Ohio, probably the same in the Midlands).

radiant · Jun 12, 2021

If you think multi-liquid development is difficult, you can re-use stop and fixer many many times. Foma films requires only 2 minutes of fixing so multi-bath is really fast too.

gone · Jun 12, 2021

That's true, but I use a vinegar stop and reuse my fixer, so not a lot of savings there, at least for me. It's already as cheap as it can get. Developers are my only main expense.

koraks · Jun 12, 2021

Guille Ibanez said:
monobath CineStill DF96

Tricky. Maybe you can get it to work, but Foma400 needs quite vigorous development in my experience and with a monobath, you run the risk of having fixed out anything that could be developed before the developer can get at it properly.
Plus what the others said about exposure. It's not a true 400 speed film and in most developers, not even close to it.

MattKing · Jun 12, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
Chinese "Kodak" D-76 seems to be going through fits of problems

Actually, it is US manufactured Kodak D-76 that seems to be the challenged one - the German manufactured stuff was the "normal" D-76.

radiant · Jun 12, 2021

momus said:
That's true, but I use a vinegar stop and reuse my fixer, so not a lot of savings there, at least for me. It's already as cheap as it can get. Developers are my only main expense.

I do reuse stop and fix mostly for time saving & for the sake of throwing perfectly good fixer away. I actually did mix fresh fixer until this spring becaue I trusted manufacturers & general guidance.

I can't understand that film fixer reuse is not more common. I cannot remember how many films I have now fixed well on 1.5 liter fixer. Maybe 10-15 times more.

My stop bath doesn't go through any kind of quality factors, old & green. I've stopped film with this old & green and then exposed to light before fixer and it seems to stop the film even in that condition. I think stop bath is overrated It just needs to be acidic and thats enough to stop development.

So reuse your stop+fixer without worries to avoid monobaths, please

grat · Jun 12, 2021

vedostuu said:
I think stop bath is overrated It just needs to be acidic and thats enough to stop development.

*sigh*

Stop bath works in two ways-- it counteracts the alkalinity of the developer, stopping development instantly. Even if the acidity is low, it will still dilute the developer sufficiently to reduce development activity to effectively nil. If you're using just water, you get just dilution-- although the purer the water, the better the dilution. So yes, old, nasty, stop bath can still work, but it's efficiency is going to be wildly unpredictable-- but if your development is 8 to 10 minutes, a few seconds either way won't matter. If your development time is down around 3 minutes, then those few seconds may make a difference.

Guille Ibanez · Jun 12, 2021

thanks everyone for your contributions!!!

shooting as if it was iso200 helped A LOT plus i added another half stop. Maybe i should also get the shutter checked
these re better than before

I'll also get some d76 this week even though after adjusting exposure, the monobath didnt turn out too bad

thanks!

MattKing · Jun 12, 2021

vedostuu said:
I think stop bath is overrated It just needs to be acidic and thats enough to stop development.

Stop bath also protects and extends your fixer.
And film fixer is designed to be re-used!.
I use a combination of clip tests and tracking fixer use vs. manufacturer's recommended capacity to determine how much re-use of fixer makes sense.
Here is a "resource" about clip tests, plus an additional wrinkle I add to my procedure: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...ixing-procedure-for-black-white-negatives.75/

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