Thermoelectric (originally "Piezoelectric"!) fridge for film storage

RogerHyam · Aug 29, 2023

I'm making myself unpopular by storing film in the family freezer. We don't have a large one or room for a larger one.

I'm thinking of buying one of these small, cheap piezoelectric fridges that are advertised for cosmetics and medicines. I'd rather not go for a compressor fridge because of the room and noise etc.

Does anyone have experience of using one of these long term for film storage? Do they take that much power if left closed? Do they have issues with condensation?

[edit: I meant thermoelectric - as in peltier...]

koraks · Aug 29, 2023

RogerHyam said:
Do they have issues with condensation?

This will be the same as for any fridge. Whenever hot (and relatively humid) air enters the fridge, condensation will form on any cool surface inside the fridge.

Peltier cooling is rather inefficient. Sure, it'll work, but I'd sooner look in the direction of small wine fridges etc. The no-noise argument is offset by the necessity of a cooling fan on the Peltier element in order to obtain somewhat acceptable efficiency.

A micro peltier fridge will keep your small stash of film cool, alright, but it may end up wasting more power than a slightly larger conventional fridge and it may never reach the low temperatures (below 10C) that any old fridge will easily maintain even during a hot summer.

I'd rethink the whole thing, personally.

RogerHyam · Aug 29, 2023

koraks said:
This will be the same as for any fridge. Whenever hot (and relatively humid) air enters the fridge, condensation will form on any cool surface inside the fridge.

Peltier cooling is rather inefficient. Sure, it'll work, but I'd sooner look in the direction of small wine fridges etc. The no-noise argument is offset by the necessity of a cooling fan on the Peltier element in order to obtain somewhat acceptable efficiency.

A micro peltier fridge will keep your small stash of film cool, alright, but it may end up wasting more power than a slightly larger conventional fridge and it may never reach the low temperatures (below 10C) that any old fridge will easily maintain even during a hot summer.

I'd rethink the whole thing, personally.

Sounds like the solid advice I was after.

Helge · Aug 29, 2023

If you have the room, buy a small chest freezer. Both for film but also for taking advantage of discounts on big cuts of meat and other stuff that benefit from deep freeze.

RogerHyam · Aug 29, 2023

Helge said:
If you have the room, buy a small chest freezer. Both for film but also for taking advantage of discounts on big cuts of meat and other stuff that benefit from deep freeze.

30+ years a vegetarian our existing freezer is full of beans! Buy them in dry bulk then pressure cook them in batches and freeze for ease of use. Alas we don't have room for even the smallest chest freezer.

Helge · Aug 29, 2023

RogerHyam said:
30+ years a vegetarian our existing freezer is full of beans! Buy them in dry bulk then pressure cook them in batches and freeze for ease of use. Alas we don't have room for even the smallest chest freezer.

What is the rest of your freezer used for then? Frozen bread and vegetables can only take up that much space and the price doesn't fluctuate as much as meat, so the advantage of freezing is much less..?

koraks · Aug 29, 2023

This place sometimes does make me chuckle.

@Helge, I get what you're saying, but @RogerHyam has been quite clear in that he wants to discontinue the use of the kitchen fridge for his photo hobby. Maybe it's the beans. Maybe it's something else that lurks in there. Regardless, the requirement was made clear right from the start!

Helge · Aug 29, 2023

koraks said:
This place sometimes does make me chuckle.

@Helge, I get what you're saying, but @RogerHyam has been quite clear in that he wants to discontinue the use of the kitchen fridge for his photo hobby. Maybe it's the beans. Maybe it's something else that lurks in there. Regardless, the requirement was made clear right from the start!

Trouble with smaller freezers is that they naturally become much less efficient, on account of the small size only. Then comes the cheaper compressor and electronics.

I am genuinely curious though: What does a vegetarian use the bulk of their freezer for?

koraks · Aug 29, 2023

In our case: bread, leftovers from dinners that are convenient to have around when there's no time to cook, meat substitutes, leftover pastries and whatnot. It's pretty full in there and I can relate to what @RogerHyam reports. I wouldn't even dream of starting to store film in there.

You know, vegetarians use fridge and freezer space just like other people. We also wash, iron, have dishwashers, most of us enjoy a glass of wine or beer from time to time - we're pretty regular people for the most part. This extends to fridge & freezer use.

Helge · Aug 29, 2023

koraks said:
In our case: bread, leftovers from dinners that are convenient to have around when there's no time to cook, meat substitutes, leftover pastries and whatnot. It's pretty full in there and I can relate to what @RogerHyam reports. I wouldn't even dream of starting to store film in there.

You know, vegetarians use fridge and freezer space just like other people. We also wash, iron, have dishwashers, most of us enjoy a glass of wine or beer from time to time - we're pretty regular people for the most part. This extends to fridge & freezer use.

So what did you do?

koraks · Aug 29, 2023

To cut a really long story short: I already had a spare fridge and dedicated it to film and paper.

RogerHyam · Aug 29, 2023

We live in a 2 bedroom flat and I use a box room for a darkroom so space is at a premium and we only have a small, under counter freezer. Of course we also have to keep the windows open what with all the beans we eat and as we are in Scotland it doesn't get that warm anyhow! Maybe the film will be fine in a draw.

ic-racer · Aug 29, 2023

RogerHyam said:
I'm making myself unpopular by storing film in the family freezer. We don't have a large one or room for a larger one.

I'm thinking of buying one of these small, cheap piezoelectric fridges that are advertised for cosmetics and medicines. I'd rather not go for a compressor fridge because of the room and noise etc.

Does anyone have experience of using one of these long term for film storage? Do they take that much power if left closed? Do they have issues with condensation?

Are there any on the market? Thermoacoustic refrigeration with conventional coil/magnet loudspeakers have been used in the past for ice cream cooling, but using piezoelectric speakers is rather new.

eli griggs · Aug 30, 2023

Our chest freezer is a half sized unit, and works well enough but if we had to replace it, a full size freezer, for both film and papers, plus meats, etc would be my first choice.

The half size baskets are handy for films, fairly deep but papers or a large number of bricks and boxed bulk rolls, would be a problem with a average number of meats, etc.

IMO.

wiltw · Aug 30, 2023

My experience with piezoelectric cooling for refrigeration is that it generates a fair amount of noise

armadsen · Aug 30, 2023

I have one of the small peltier fridges in my home office. It’s meant to hold six 12 oz drink cans. I keep film in it. It works just fine. The fan makes some noise, but not enough to bother me, and I sit at my desk working 8 hours a day about 5 feet away from it.

Bill Burk · Aug 30, 2023

I found a peltier wine cooler by the curb and use it to hold film.

I’ve had to replace the peltier chips twice, and it since stopped working altogether.

Condensation was always a problem. I put a small towel at the back of the chamber to sop it up.

It’s a good option but may not be the most reliable technology for the purpose.

RogerHyam · Aug 30, 2023

ic-racer said:
Are there any on the market? Thermoacoustic refrigeration with conventional coil/magnet loudspeakers have been used in the past for ice cream cooling, but using piezoelectric speakers is rather new.

Me being dumb. I meant thermoelectric - as in peltier.

awty · Aug 30, 2023

Unless you want to keep film long past expiry date or subject it to regular +30C temperatures its not necessary to refrigerate your film. Somewhere cool and dry is all it needs.

Don_ih · Aug 30, 2023

awty said:
Somewhere cool and dry is all it needs.

Ditto. Or if you want to keep a lifetime supply, a freezer is good. For regular hobby use of a couple of kinds of film, just keep it at a fairly constant temperature. In a box on the floor will work. Maybe under the bed.

awty · Aug 30, 2023

Don_ih said:
Ditto. Or if you want to keep a lifetime supply, a freezer is good. For regular hobby use of a couple of kinds of film, just keep it at a fairly constant temperature. In a box on the floor will work. Maybe under the bed.

The only time I ever had a problem with film going bad was rolled film kept in the fridge, dont keep anything in the fridge now.
Worse case for cold wet Scotland would be you may need to make a dehumidifier container which runs silently and just uses a few hundred milliamps, but only if you have high humidity.

RogerHyam · Sep 8, 2023

Great advice from all. I think there is a spot in the centre of the flat next to the stone stairwell that stays cool. I'll keep it there with some silica gel.

MattKing · Sep 8, 2023

RogerHyam said:
Great advice from all. I think there is a spot in the centre of the flat next to the stone stairwell that stays cool. I'll keep it there with some silica gel.

A stone stairwell probably provides an excellent heat sink, for drawing heat away from a film container.

Thermoelectric (originally "Piezoelectric"!) fridge for film storage

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