There's a new one on me: Graflex Stereo Graphic

[Donald Qualls]

I recently picked up a Stereo Graphic from the classifieds here for a very reasonable (IMO) price. Included was an everready case that looks brand new except for the tripod screw missing, and the camera itself looks new except for needing some cleaning of the viewfinder windows (dirt was on the outside, a Q-tip took it right off).

There's not much out there on this camera model; apparently it wasn't as popular as the Stereo Realist (or came to that market too late?). It makes simultaneous 24 (high) by 23 (wide) exposures, with twice that width between, so it can advance by 10 perfs each exposure and get consistent frames, 26 pairs on a 36 exposure roll. The lenses are 35 mm f/4 triplets, and the only control is an aperture knob between the lenses with settings from f/4 to f/16 and weather descriptions for ISO 25 (Kodachrome of the day), though inside the top of the case is an exposure chart that also covers Ektachrome and Agfachrome, presumably ISO 64. In digging for information, however, I came upon an advertisement referring to "Depthmaster Auto-Focus" -- which, with a little reading in, seems to indicate the set focus for the two lenses differs, so that their depth of field will ensure one frame or the other is sharp at any reasonable distance even with the apertures wide open.

This seems like a remarkably simple way to make stereo photography easier -- which was much of the, um, focus of this model, of course. Has anyone used one of these who can confirm this conjecture? I just loaded mine, but haven't had a chance to shoot yet (and may rewind the XP2 and load something slower, since the camera is built around ISO 25-64).

 

[ags2mikon]

Pan F+ to the rescue.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Pan F+ to the rescue.

Well, yes, though in fact I've got a bulk roll of ORWO DN21, ISO 12 print film, and I can either open up one stop or push one. Or I can push the XP2 one stop and bleach bypass (EI 1250 or so) and shoot wide open under streetlights or in well lit interiors. Forgot to mention the shutter is reportedly 1/50 with I and B options...

But I'm mainly interested in whether anyone has verified my hypothesis about the two lenses being set to different focus distances, say 8 feet and, perhaps, about 15-20 so as to extend the hyperfocal range...

 

[outwest]

Don, one of these was my first 35mm camera (and the first of many stereo cameras). I'll have to check some slides to see if they support your conjecture.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I'll have to check some slides to see if they support your conjecture.

Looking forward to it. Also considering getting a viewer (saw one on Etsy this morning). I think I can 3D print mounts to fit...

 

[ags2mikon]

My guess is that when viewing the images your brain will see one image is in sharp focus and will fill in the rest of the details. Kind of like digital.

 

[hsandler]

I don’t know about this model, but I used to have a Realist with a wonky focus such that one image was a little unsharp. The brain indeed fuses them and seems to insert the sharper detail from one into the stereo view. This also goes for slight colour and tonal differences between pairs. They seem to get averaged and dont stand out when viewing in stereo.

I attached an example, in parallel (SBS) format. The rightmost orchid is less sharp in the left chip, but the stereo image looks sharp. It’s not an egregious example, but then I almost always stop down to f8 or f11 when I can for stereo. The lenses tend to vignette at f16, so I use slow film.

By the way, I believe you get 29 pairs in Realist format to a roll of nominally 36 exposure film. The film advances 10 sprockets per exposure with each chip (half stereo image) separated from its countepart by two intervening chips. I really think Seton Rochwite’s genius was in coming up with the format.

IMHO stereo lends itself more to colour than B&W, despite the long history of sepia stereo cards. Stereo adds realism, and colour adds to that.

I have an Owl viewer from London Stereoscopic. It’s great for cards printed on 4x6 paper and for holding against an ipad oriented vertically with full width stereo image pairs. I put the large dark grey border on my images so they are sized nicely for viewing when printed 4x6 or displayed on ipad.I have also learned to free view parallel format images if they are not displayed much wider than my eye separation. But everyone else in my family needs the viewer.

 

[mshchem]

VERY COOL! A gem for sure. A viewer (at the right price) sounds essential!

 

[BAC1967]

Sounds like the lenses have a lot of separation which would make an exaggerated stereo image. My wife has contacts, one is for reading and the other is for distance. It took a little getting used to but her brain fixes the focus so everything looks correct.

 

[hsandler]

Sounds like the lenses have a lot of separation which would make an exaggerated stereo image. My wife has contacts, one is for reading and the other is for distance. It took a little getting used to but her brain fixes the focus so everything looks correct.

Separation is determined by the format. Realist format cameras all have 72mm lens separation (15 perforations along 35mm film). Human eyes have about 63mm separation. Realist cameras give natural looking stereo for main subjects about 2-4m away. For distant subjects, you want hyper stereo, so many enthusiasts use a single camera and move it quite a lot between shots. For macro, you want less separation than eyes, so many enthusiasts use a single camera on a macro rail perpendicular to the subject.

 

[Donald Qualls]

VERY COOL! A gem for sure. A viewer (at the right price) sounds essential!

Would have been if I'd bought it yesterday or Sunday night... Gone now, but I grabbed a different one off eBay. I could make a viewer easily enough, and I'm nearsighted enough not to need lenses in a cardboard viewer -- or I can print the images and use a Holmes type viewer -- but having a viewer and the ability to make mounts makes everything easier.

 

[BAC1967]

Separation is determined by the format. Realist format cameras all have 72mm lens separation (15 perforations along 35mm film). Human eyes have about 63mm separation. Realist cameras give natural looking stereo for main subjects about 2-4m away. For distant subjects, you want hyper stereo, so many enthusiasts use a single camera and move it quite a lot between shots. For macro, you want less separation than eyes, so many enthusiasts use a single camera on a macro rail perpendicular to the subject.

Thanks for the explanation, I’ve only shot View-Master, the separation is about the same as your eye.

 

[Donald Qualls]

View-Master, the separation is about the same as your eye.

For the consumer camera, it is -- but many of the commercially produced disks have hyperstereo images. For instance, a stereo photo of the Grand Canyon shot with lenses 2.5 inches apart (roughly the average interpupillary distance) would look as flat as a regular photo (except for foreground objects, anyway). Move the two lenses several yards apart, though, and you get reasonable depth on objects a mile or so distant.

 

[BAC1967]

For the consumer camera, it is -- but many of the commercially produced disks have hyperstereo images. For instance, a stereo photo of the Grand Canyon shot with lenses 2.5 inches apart (roughly the average interpupillary distance) would look as flat as a regular photo (except for foreground objects, anyway). Move the two lenses several yards apart, though, and you get reasonable depth on objects a mile or so distant.

That's what I've found with the View-Master camera, the 3D effect is lost beyond about 30 feet. I always put something in the foreground.

 

[Donald Qualls]

the 3D effect is lost beyond about 30 feet.

And this matches our normal vision pretty well. I can generally distinguish depth to about 50 feet, but it's much more subtle than "looking 3D" like nearby objects do. As mentioned above, people who do stereo photography regularly have things like slide brackets to let them use a single camera in two positions a fixed distance apart to do hyperstereo for scenic shots. A stereo microscop actually looks through the same objective with both eyes, but the objective is large enough to give two optical paths (which is related to why they're almost always relatively low magnification).

 

[outwest]

Sorry it took so long but I finally located my 1964 3D slides from the Stereo Graphic and got a few under the microscope. Bottom line, one side is much sharper, in say, the 4 to 8 foot range, and is good at longer distances. The other lens is very sharp at distance. Never really noticed it using a viewer.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Sorry it took so long but I finally located my 1964 3D slides from the Stereo Graphic and got a few under the microscope. Bottom line, one side is much sharper, in say, the 4 to 8 foot range, and is good at longer distances. The other lens is very sharp at distance. Never really noticed it using a viewer.

Excellent, thanks! Confirms my between-the-lines reading of the description, and makes perfect sense. If you have a couple minutes to spare, could you measure the mount -- thickness, height, width, and window dimensions and location? Since there's approximately zero chance of finding any of those, I expect I'll have to 3D print my own.

 

[reddesert]

Viewers and stereo slide mounts in Realist format are currently produced I think. I haven't bought from any of these online suppliers, but just hit the google for "stereo slide mounts" or similar.

 

[hsandler]

A lot of stereo accessories here: https://www.berezin.com/3d/

 

[Donald Qualls]

Viewers and stereo slide mounts in Realist format are currently produced I think.

Hmm. Is Realist compatible with Stereo Graphic? I've got a viewer now, just came in the weekend mail.

The camera's frame is 23w x 24h, though it's reasonable to mask a millimeter or so -- and it would need to have the right spacing to work in the viewer. I see 5P mounts -- is that 5 perf? I see Realist is 5 perf as well, so I guess I'm compatible at least for frame. Mount dimensions -- well, it looks similar...

 

[hsandler]

Most American stereo cameras, viewers and mounts, other than view master, are Realist format. It was a popular ecosystem. Yes, 5p means 5 perfs. There was a European 7p system.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Excellent -- then I'll try to order a box of those mounts next payday (also need to get some Ektachrome on the way...). The film I've got loaded now will be negatives -- XP2 Super can be reversed, but not when pushed +1 and bleach bypass to get EI 1250 (which lets me shoot in well lit interiors).

I can test this next time I unload the camera, in case no one is sure, but does anyone know if the Stereo Graphic has M or X sync on the hot shoe? The 1/50 shutter is just fast enough it might have needed M for bulb flash...

 

[outwest]

The manual on Butkus says "Your Stereo Graphic is synchronized for all M type bulbs such as No. 5
and No. 25 (M-2 bubs can also be used provided you have the M-2 Graflash B-C unit).

 

[Sirius Glass]

Where do the earphones plug in?

 

[guangong]

I bought stereo mounts and some other items for Stereo Realist from a dealer in Ohio just a few years ago. The success of the Realist is due to its mechanical simplicity and reliability. From personal experience the camera with the slower lens produces better pictures.
I found the discussion regarding the differences in depth of field between a pair of lenses interesting. The idea of differences never occurred to me.