The use of crowd funding for new photographic (ad)ventures

Film-Niko

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I can completely agree. Very good description.
 

koraks

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It is effectively a donation or investment. [...] Donating to or investing in a new endeavour in the hope that it comes to fruition.

There's a massive difference between an investment and a donation. As I understand it, most kickstarters are effectively donations-based as there's no exchange of equity. This is the whole trouble with how people respond to Kickstarter-type initiatives: do they get anything in return, or not? So by taking donations and investments in a single stride, the waters remain as clear as mud as they have been before.
 

Agulliver

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There's no exchange of equity but there's the hope of a return - in the form of a "reward"....usually the product who's development you're backing.
 

koraks

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So the term "investment" really does not apply here. I think you've just demonstrated a big part of the problem: people easily assume all manner of things based on their own preconceptions of how something like this might work - or even what certain terms mean. And the subsequently realize that it's a little different from how they imagined it.

Of course, engaging the general public in venture building beings some unique challenges you don't have (it much less so) when working with seasoned investors. I think this thread rightfully calls into question whether platforms like Kickstarter are sufficiently successful in facing these challenges.
 

MFstooges

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You get asset in investment. Some people even call buying a car as investment even though they're losing money but they do have residual value.
 

MattKing

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There are differences between investments and investments designed to give a particular type of return.
I invest a lot of time and effort into Photrio. No real financial benefits, other than a few small sales.
Lots of benefits in return though - the non-financial types, of course.
 

Sirius Glass

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Not everyone sees what I see, but crowdfunding has an inherent ingredient of dishonesty built in, and fine print makes it legal.

Risky in crowdfunding means that there are risks involved, not that it is inherently dishonest. As I posted earlier, one should read all the material carefully and balance to cost versus desire & need versus risks.
 

MFstooges

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Intangible asset, still an asset.
 

Agulliver

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Yes this is what I was thinking when I used the word "investment" alongside "donation". You're investing time and money into an effort which may or may not yield a product at the end of it. I don't mean to say you're investing in a company, which as @koraks says usually means an exchange of funds in return for a portion of the company or of it's projected profits.

As others have already said. Read the details. Decide if the project seems viable. If it's not a project you fully understand from the technical viewpoint then treat with extra caution. Only donate what you can afford to lose. There have never been any guarantees with R&D of new products, and such work has always cost money. When Rich Uncle gave $20,000 he knew there was a possibility that Hopeful Nephew might not succeed. Same here. That is not inherently dishonest, it's how product development goes. For every success there are myriad failures....usually with honest intent.
 

koraks

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You're investing time and money into an effort which may or may not yield a product at the end of it.

But there's a difference between 'spending' and 'investing'. That's the point I was making. Anyway, you understand what I said, evidently.

Read the details. Decide if the project seems viable.

I think a big part of the problem is that many people are just not capable of doing this in such a way to prevent their walking away disappointed. The fact that this thread exists, is testament to it. And I think that's the challenge Kickstarter & co need to address. How do you inform in an adequate way an audience that may not even be aware of the most basic aspects of throwing money at something?
 

Nicholas Lindan

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The dispute here seems to be over the meaning of the word 'investing.'

My use of the word is the purchase of fungible assets with the plan of future sales at a profit.

It has a meaning in the purchase of capital equipment. The equipment will turn to rust and have no future value, but it will have made something worth more than the equipment's purchase price.

Most usage of the word, however, seems to be as justification for paying too much for something one doesn't really need. "No dear, $1,200 wasn't too much to pay for it. It's an investment." I suppose one could say it is an investment in one's future pleasure, sort of like buying drugs; though such investments have a tendency to go up in smoke.
 

Sirius Glass

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I suspect, no proof, that some of the investors react on impulse and may not put much thought into the project.
 

DanyB

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Crowdfounding is very interesting but in my opinion one should be well known in order to raise enough money to accomplish its project.
Even if the project is good and valid, if you are almost unknown you can’t go too far.
What do you think guys?
 
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