The unsuccessful color paint

captain ZZM · May 9, 2015

I finally got complete RA-4 Chemicals.Today,I decided to try color paint in my friend's darkroom and use a Kodak RA-4 20*24 color paper,expired about 10 years.
These are not good work.I only got some so yellow and green picture.

zehner21 · May 9, 2015

They're expired, that's why you are encountering troubles printing.

Rudeofus · May 9, 2015

Did you try to adjust filtration? RA-4 gives you completely crazy results if filtration is off, and filtration start values given in data sheets are starting points but not more. I have printed on Kodak paper that's at least 15 years old, and while contrast is weaker than it should be, it is possible to get normal colors.

wildbill · May 9, 2015

.........umm, you're paper expired 10yrs ago. You wasted your time.

Gerald C Koch · May 9, 2015

Color paper is not like BW paper it does not keep well.

RPC · May 9, 2015

It keeps better if kept cold, but 10 year old paper, if kept at room temperature, would certainly be a disaster.

But the filtration could be off as well.

pentaxuser · May 9, 2015

Give us the name of the Kodak paper and tell us what filtration you used. With that information somebody might be able to recommend what filtration to try. Your paper might be expired but I would not throw it away until we can eliminate all other reasons why the cast is this yellow/ green colour

pentaxuser

captain ZZM · May 9, 2015

In fact.I was busy for eliminate false light form timer and socket

pentaxuser · May 10, 2015

captain ZZM said:
In fact.I was busy for eliminate false light form timer and socket

I am not sure what your statement means. Are you saying that there is light escaping from your timer and socket? If so then yes cover up that light and then try again. However it would still be sensible to tell us the name of the RA4 paper and what filtration you are using.

pentaxuser

EdSawyer · May 10, 2015

I have used 20 yr old color paper, and it is still mostly fine. It has an uncorrectable yellow cast but otherwise no real problems. The age does not explain the results here. This looks like it had been fogged, or used with a safelight or something. 10 year old unfogged paper should be much better than this. Contrary to what is mentioned here, color paper keeps quite well, esp. If frozen.

RPC · May 10, 2015

I can only go by my own experience. I bought some opened-box Kodak Endura paper off of ebay, and simply could not get a properly balanced print from it; there appeared to be very noticible crossover. The base had yellowed, but no evidence of light fogging. The paper had no expiration date. I bought some new and the problem went away. I vowed to always buy new, unexpired paper from a reputable seller.

I bought several boxes of Endura paper at the time Kodak discontinued making it in sheet form and there is some yellowing of the base on all of it, even thought it has been frozen, but no visible crossover yet, although highlights are noticibly off-color when compared to Fuji CA II of the same age which has a much whiter base. It doesn't bother me one wit that Kodak no longer sells it in cut sheets; there is Fuji to buy and I prefer it.

My ebay paper likely hadn't been kept cold and there is no telling about the OP's.

My problem wasn't as bad as the OP's, though, and likely a filtration or fogging problem is the primary cause.

Athiril · May 10, 2015

You can get rid of colour paper fog by altering the developer, or mixing your own to basically lose speed and clip shadows, requires increased exposure. Might not be able to balance properly printing optically I haven't tried, I've done it in a lightjet printer, that can be calibrated from a test strip, which can correct shadows going one colour and highlights the inverse etc.

Nodda Duma · Jun 6, 2015

I ran into a similar problem with Fuji Crystal Archive paper and my first attempt at RA-4 processing. The prints had a serious pink color shift which I can only assume comes from using paper I obtained off eBay.
Even an unexposed sheet developed to a deep pink color.

So first lesson of color printing for me is to buy fresh paper.

Gerald C Koch · Jun 6, 2015

EdSawyer said:
I have used 20 yr old color paper, and it is still mostly fine. It has an uncorrectable yellow cast but otherwise no real problems. The age does not explain the results here. This looks like it had been fogged, or used with a safelight or something. 10 year old unfogged paper should be much better than this. Contrary to what is mentioned here, color paper keeps quite well, esp. If frozen.

Different papers whether color or black and white age at varying rates. So one cannot really make comparisons. This is especially true if we do not know the history of the paper.

pentaxuser · Jun 6, 2015

The OP appears to have lost interest. Pity as if he had answered a few of the questions asked we might have been able to help more.

When I first started colour printing I managed to produce an overall green cast not dissimilar to the OP and it had nothing to do with the paper and everything to do with the user. Old paper might be the problem here but there might be other causes.

pentaxuser

captain ZZM · Jun 7, 2015

Oh,l try again in last week,the color no longer very unusual.The paper is Ektacolor EDGE 7,and package has a Olympic Rings.

Gerald C Koch · Jun 7, 2015

Some years ago I read a magazine article that quoted the owner of a color processing plant. He stated that contrary to popular belief there were only two primary colors, puke and burple. Puke is greenish yellow and burple is bluish purple. Whenever people complained about a print it was either too puke or too burple.

pentaxuser · Jun 7, 2015

captain ZZM said:
Oh,l try again in last week,the color no longer very unusual.The paper is Ektacolor EDGE 7,and package has a Olympic Rings.

As we try to be problem solvers here on APUG it would be nice if you can tell us what changes you made to produce what is a much better print. Did you change the filtration as an example?

Thanks

pentaxuser

captain ZZM · Jun 7, 2015

pentaxuser said:
As we try to be problem solvers here on APUG it would be nice if you can tell us what changes you made to produce what is a much better print. Did you change the filtration as an example?

Thanks

pentaxuser

I used my friends Meopta Magnifax 4a Enlarger,the filtration located M100 and Y120.The photo from Fuji Superia 200.

mnemosyne · Jun 8, 2015

captain ZZM said:
I used my friends Meopta Magnifax 4a Enlarger,the filtration located M100 and Y120.The photo from Fuji Superia 200.

If the scan is an accurate representation of the original print, it looks better now, but still not really good. The overall yellowish tone is probably due to the age of the paper. Try some fresh Fuji Crystal Archive or Kodak Endura Premier paper and my guess is you will instantly see the difference. I too use a Magnifax 4a, and just to give you some general orientation, my filter values on Kodak EP are around 40Y and 80M --- My experience with Fuji paper is limited, but my impression is that filtration for yellow, magenta and density is within a ten point range from the values of Kodak EP. Of course this is not directly comparable, as it depends on a lot of factors like the type and age of the halogen bulb, the way you process the paper etc., but it should give you some orientation.

To find color paper that old that still works you need to be a very, very lucky guy. I recently got hold of a pack of Agfa Portrait paper that is about 10 years old, "stored cool", and still sealed in the original box. The paper is fogged hopelessly.

Good luck and report back here!

Gerald C Koch · Jun 8, 2015

I question the wisdom in trying to learn a new process with old or out-dated materials. You have stacked the deck against yourself. From posts on APUG all this practice seems to lead to is frustration. If you wanted to learn to become a chef would you start with rotten vegetables and stale ingredients?

Wayne · Jun 8, 2015

No, but if I was hungry enough and couldn't get anything else I'd eat them.

Gerald C Koch said:
I question the wisdom in trying to learn a new process with old or out-dated materials. You have stacked the deck against yourself. From posts on APUG all this practice seems to lead to is frustration. If you wanted to learn to become a chef would you start with rotten vegetables and stale ingredients?

OzJohn · Jun 8, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
I question the wisdom in trying to learn a new process with old or out-dated materials. You have stacked the deck against yourself. From posts on APUG all this practice seems to lead to is frustration. If you wanted to learn to become a chef would you start with rotten vegetables and stale ingredients?

Says it all really. Printing colour well is one of the most satisfying things I've ever done in photography but it only becomes enjoyable when you get control of all the variables and surely the quality of the paper and chemicals used must be the most important and easiest variable to bring under control. Without nailing that one down how do go about working out if you're getting on top of the harder ones - temperature, time and particularly filtration? OzJohn

captain ZZM · Jun 9, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
I question the wisdom in trying to learn a new process with old or out-dated materials. You have stacked the deck against yourself. From posts on APUG all this practice seems to lead to is frustration. If you wanted to learn to become a chef would you start with rotten vegetables and stale ingredients?

I cant buy new Kodak and Fuji color paper in China.But here you can buy Big rollcolor paper

Sirius Glass · Jun 9, 2015

captain ZZM said:
I cant buy new Kodak and Fuji color paper in China.But here you can buy Big rollcolor paper

I figured that there was a fly in the ointment.

The unsuccessful color paint

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