The Sad State of Retail Photography Stores

isaacc7 · Jun 29, 2006

michael9793 said:
Peter,

This was the 1980's. I have since done to Dental School and have a practice in FLorida. So now instead of making a living in photography to supply my photo needs I do dentistry and supply my photo needs. You are right I love small little stores that have hidden spaces. Here in florida everything is a f---ing chain. The only photo store that isn't is run by some Ohio U. Photo allumni. Like me. Get this they supply the local schools with photo supplies. I go in there and they have dektol,D-76, kodak fixer. then in the paper department it is all RC. kodak and ilford. Now just ilford. I asked why just RC and they said (get this) that's what people only use today. NO ONE USES FIBER BASE PAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I laughed in their faces and said that they were way out of touch and their anwser was we have not heard or anyone using fiber base paper because the RC is so much better. Wouldn't it be nice if these morons did a little reseach over the years. At least when you go into a Ritz Camera, your prepared to talk to morons.
regards
mike

RC outsells fiber paper by a wide margin here, maybe 8 to 1. It's not as though places made up their mind one day and decided not to carry stuff that had been selling, stores stop carrying what won't sell. If you want them to stock something, you need to buy it.

Isaac

michael9793 · Jun 30, 2006

isaacc7 said:
RC outsells fiber paper by a wide margin here, maybe 8 to 1. It's not as though places made up their mind one day and decided not to carry stuff that had been selling, stores stop carrying what won't sell. If you want them to stock something, you need to buy it.

Isaac

Isaac,

you are right, but this store has sold out to digital. even her son left and opened his own store in Orlando, and I here it's much more photographer friendly. They help teach at the local schools and collage, so they will be the biggest influence around.
I tried to order, but they only order when with need something and if school is out forget it your talking months. I needed photo Flo. they were out. I waited a month and they still had not gotten there order in ( or should I say they hadn't ordered yet). So I ordered form one on line. Now that they have moved there store it looks very clean. They use to have a junk area and I would look through that all the time. found a SS tank. I used it for a while then sold it on e-bay for 3x what I paid for it. I got spot-tone for 5 dollars that was dated 1986 on the sticker. still good and will use it. but now I go into the store and there is nothing to go through. Again they are missing the boat. One of Clyde Butchers darkroom lab techs. told me they would have bought from this store if they would have been better at getting supplies for them. Again you have to do a little to keep people coming back and they don't.

mike

isaacc7 · Jun 30, 2006

michael9793 said:
Isaac,

you are right, but this store has sold out to digital. Now that they have moved there store it looks very clean. They use to have a junk area and I would look through that all the time. found a SS tank. I used it for a while then sold it on e-bay for 3x what I paid for it. I got spot-tone for 5 dollars that was dated 1986 on the sticker. still good and will use it. but now I go into the store and there is nothing to go through. Again they are missing the boat. One of Clyde Butchers darkroom lab techs. told me they would have bought from this store if they would have been better at getting supplies for them. Again you have to do a little to keep people coming back and they don't.

mike

Actually, I think that they caught another boat... I'm sure that if they had been making lots of money off the junk they would still have it. Fact is that you need a certain volume to keep in business. What may look like a minor thing for you becomes a major pain when it prevents you from doing what pays the bills. Stores do what will make them money, there's nothing personal about it...

Isaac

Petzi · Jun 30, 2006

C A Sugg said:
I too like to throw some business to the local stores, to keep B&W film available here in Richmond, VA. However, my last couple of buys have me rethinking that. The pro-pack of 120 Plus-X was intended for sale in Brazil and the 100 ft of Tri-X read something like "proud sponsor of the Canadian Olympic Commitee." They were selling semi-grey, that B&H usually has for a considerable discount, at full retail +. For all I know, that's where they got it, then marked it up as if it was regular distribution.

Did you ask why they do it? It may be the only way for them to keep film vending a viable business. I hear that Kodak is very hard to deal with, and that their minimum order requirements are hard to meet. If it is a small local store, and not a chain, then they might just not be able to get the film from Kodak directly, or not at any competitive rate. I don't know. As long as it's the same film, it shouldn't matter anyway.

jpeets · Jul 1, 2006

A real bookstore? In Port Perry perhaps?

My vote is Downtown Camera. The best place left after the demise of Alt's. Henry's and Vistek are effectively out of the darkroom game, and becoming weak on film.

I am slowly filling my freezer........

Jaan

Jadedoto · Jul 1, 2006

Hey now, I'm 16 and even I know that. Personally, I know my way around Photoshop like no other, but having been doing solid darkroom nearly 10 hours a week for the past two years, I've learned beacoup darkroom. I've still got more to do, but I'm to the point where I can sell prints- and people actually buy them.

There is ONE shop in my town. One. And their darkroom section looks about the same, albeit there is selenium there.

But in the meantime, don't loose all hope in the younger crowd- I'm here to stay! I just hope that in California gets some fixer splashed in his cuts soon.

But I'd go back and ask him how to make a photo archival in photoshop. I've never heard that before.

Samuel B · Jul 4, 2006

wotalegend said:
Where are they please? I know about Pinewood, and I know I can order on the net from Vanbar, but any others are well hidden.

As far as I know Vanbar is the only place that has a full range of film & paper supplies in Melbourne, I heard Pinewood has closed.

wotalegend · Jul 5, 2006

I was in Pinewood's shop a couple of weeks ago. They looked alive and well then....no closing down sales or anything like that. Their web site is still running, although that's no proof.

rosey · Jul 9, 2006

michael9793 said:
When I was much younger I had been a manager of a Dodd camera store in cleveland at one time. Before that I worked at the downtown store that was a classic. old wood floors long glass counters with inventory on the shelves behind you. We carried every camera made. The company allowed use to take the cameras and use them to learn how they worked as well as knowing there features. We had everything. cameras, full darakrooms, mounting and matt boards and everything you can think of stocked. if we ran out, up stairs to inventory and get somemore. There profession inventory like lighting, processors and repair were at a different location, but within waking distance.
regards
mike

Mike,
I get to Cleveland every few weeks and pass a big Dodd store on Carnegie. And Dodd just bought a used-camera place out on Mayfield Road where I had picked up some good ol' Nikon stuff. Your comment makes me want to stop at the big Dodd's to see what has changed. I worked for many years downtown at the Cleveland Press and would spend numerous lunch hours browsing the stock at the old Dodd's with the wooden floors. Great memories!!

rosey · Jul 9, 2006

Wigwam Jones said:
I am sorry to hear it is hitting the larger metropolitan areas now too. Out in the hinterlands, all the camera stores are gone. All of them. Not even the ersatz "Ritz" survived the Walmarts and the digital cameras.

Interesting that you write about the demise of Ritz. Here in Toledo we have a Ritz store at the major local mall, and Ritz has not only moved into new, bigger mall spaces there, but added a Fuji Frontier film processing lab. A few miles away there is a "full-service" photo store that is leaning heavily toward digital, but still handled some film supplies for us oldtimers. All this despite the influx of three Wal-Marts in the area. Now, while Ritz is processing film, there is nary a single film camera to be had in the entire store, I believe. Certainly they are full in the digital arena now. Yet it's interesting to note the expenditure of the Fuji machinery. Even more notable there is that while one experienced, veteran of analog days was let go by another floundering, long-time local photo business, the manager at Ritz hired him for his experience and knowledge, despite having to teach the new man about digital from the ground up. For a while, then, film devotees will have some needs met locally by a forward-thinking store.

Area51Resident · Jul 29, 2006

Uncle Bill said:
I second Shelly's recommendation, if you are from the GTA, get over driving into the city and patronise Downtown Camera and 8 Elm Photo. Put simple they have what we need, they know the product, they speak our language and they care. I bought all my chemicals and goodies for developing film at Downtown Camera and got great service. I am happy. I might go back and buy that R3a with 40 Nokton when I get a new job, they deserve the business.

Bill

Me three - for lack of a better acknowledgement of the two previous posts.

I commute daily from Burlington and the office is a few minutes walk from Downtown Camera - always knowledgable and helpful. A couple of weiners behind the counter I avoid. The girl/guy combo on the cash counter know their film and are always helpful.

Henry's Downtown is a customer service wasteland for darkroom. Don't plan on getting any help there. Selection is pretty good and is changing. Be forewarned though - they sometimes have some questionable stock. They have purchased many mom and pop photo shops and their old stock. They sell-off the old inventory through their "outlet" center and some rather dusty looking chemicals go on the shelf in the main store.

There is also a pretty good store here in Burlington - Burlington Camera. Good selection of darkroom supplies and used gear. Prices are bit on the high side and service can be hit or miss. But at least they have never tried to sell me anything digital.

To the west there is Bell*Arte in Hamilton. Small store, well stocked good staff. Prices a little too high for me but they have a surprising selection for a small shop.

Have a good one!

Peter Schrager · Jul 29, 2006

Retail-ho hum!!

I grew up in and around the NYC area. We had all the biggies there. Wall St; Willoughbys; Lens and Repro and oh so many more now extinct. Now except for B+H and sometimes Lens and Repro to say hello I don't miss a one of them. Back in the day I never had the money so was not EVER welcomed. Sure it was fun to go through the junk piles but I was still ever so poor. Then you had the Ken Hansen type place who sized up your wallet as soon as you walked in the door. There were others. That totally elitist bullshit where money talks and nobody walks is in the past. Now they all grovel for scraps on Epay while we walk off with the goods for next to nothing. Even today when I walk into L+R the kind folk are "like are you leaving yet?" It's really obnoxious. I like to go up and have a looksee at the goods. There are NO bargains to be had either. Have you ever tried to sell something back to B+H?
They look at you like you're from mars with a quick "and vhat is dis ting?" While they know damn well they sold it to you last week on special order for $4,000!
But I have to share one romantic thought. In the OLD days L+R was truly one of the great meccas of LF. My first LF camera was a 5x7 EK that I got somewhere else. When I went up to L+R Stu Kaye took me personnaly under his wing and he used to actually give me stuff. I still have a fine British Ross 10" lens that he sold me. (that was my one lens when I truly kept it simple)And I still have my 5x7 carrying case that he gave me which now houses a Deardorf. The place was a huge and dark loft on 17th street. Just going up there I could swear that EW or Ansel were lurking somewhere in the back!! And even if they weren't probably one of their cameras was!!
Top of the day to everyone,
Peter

SkipA · Jul 29, 2006

David Brown said:
In another thread, early in May, I posted: "My frustration here in north Texas (Dallas), is that there is enough of a community to support one, good store. But, we don't have one, we have several, none of whom can stock a complete inventory.

Competitive Camera in the Dallas photo district, Warehouse Photographic in Carrollton, and the big Wolf Camera (formerly Barry's Camera many years ago) on Harry Hines in West Dallas all stock varying amounts of film and darkroom photographic products. But it's less and less each time I go in. The people who work there are knowledgeable, for the most part. They've been around a long time. But they won't necessarily special order something for you if it means they have to meet minimums on products they can't move. I can't blame them for that. I find it so depressing that I seldom go to any of them anymore, and just buy on the internet.

Joe VanCleave · Jul 29, 2006

There's a folk music store within walking distance of my house, here in Albuquerque, NM. Its next to the barber shop I frequent.

How does a folk music store stay in business, selling handmade folk instruments? Simple: they offer a good selection of music classes, in-store, and also sponsor several local folk music groups and clubs. Its the after-sale support that makes or breaks the business.

This is a business model that is sorely needed if analog photography shops want to stay in business. As a college town, we're fortunate to have 2 decent shops - both locate close to the university. And Santa Fe has a healthy art community to keep a photo store in business.

But without those advantages, they wouldn't be in business at all. Photo stores need to quit relying on college photography classes, and start boot-strapping their own future clientele. There's a whole generation that doesn't know what a film camera is or does, nor has any understanding about the wet processing side of things. A camera store needs to sponsor classes and seminars and photo clubs.

They need to pretend like the technology just got invented yesterday, no one knows anything about it, and it's their job to create a future market.

Uncle Bill · Jul 30, 2006

I had an interesting experiance yesterday. I stopped by a North Toronto camera store called Hit Photo to buy a roll of Ilford Delta 3200. I walk in, no fridge, ask the owner if he had any film. No, he said I dropped film all together and went 100% digital. I replied he lost a sale because 1) I needed a roll of 3200 B&W film for a shoot. and 2) I was looking for some Minolta lenses.

Funny thing is Hit Photo is sitting on some decent used gear like Nikon F's and Leica R4's with related lenses. I was not about to get into an argument because I would be wasting my breath. I will tell you this, I was the only customer on a Saturday afternoon.

Bill

roteague · Jul 30, 2006

Uncle Bill said:
I had an interesting experiance yesterday. I stopped by a North Toronto camera store called Hit Photo to buy a roll of Ilford Delta 3200. I walk in, no fridge, ask the owner if he had any film. No, he said I dropped film all together and went 100% digital.

You know, what is sad, is these people actually think they can compete with WalMart, etc. Just last night I went to BestBuy and saw a Nikon D70s for $200 less than the local camera store sells it for. Plus, with these stores you can get instant credit, low payments - try that with the local camera store.

pelerin · Jul 31, 2006

Peter Schrager said:
<snip>
Back in the day I never had the money so was not EVER welcomed. Sure it was fun to go through the junk piles but I was still ever so poor. Then you had the Ken Hansen type place who sized up your wallet as soon as you walked in the door. There were others. That totally elitist bullshit where money talks and nobody walks is in the past. Now they all grovel for scraps on Epay while we walk off with the goods for next to nothing. Even today when I walk into L+R the kind folk are "like are you leaving yet?" It's really obnoxious. I like to go up and have a looksee at the goods. There are NO bargains to be had either.
<snip>
But I have to share one romantic thought. In the OLD days L+R was truly one of the great meccas of LF. My first LF camera was a 5x7 EK that I got somewhere else. When I went up to L+R Stu Kaye took me personnaly under his wing and he used to actually give me stuff. I still have a fine British Ross 10" lens that he sold me. (that was my one lens when I truly kept it simple)And I still have my 5x7 carrying case that he gave me which now houses a Deardorf.
<snip>
Peter

Hey,
Actually I think you meant "money talks and BS walks." As in "I didn't buy anything, I just walked around the store taking up time, BS'ing with the salespeople." Maybe as in I like to go up and have a looksee at the goods. There are NO bargains to be had either. I'd say you have a hard time finding a bargain to suit you your standards alright... since the merchant where someone took me personnaly under his wing and he used to actually give me stuff you find to be really obnoxious ...that's pretty elitist and unwelcoming... giving you stuff.
Celac.

markbb · Jul 31, 2006

I wonder how much of this is peculiar to photo stores? Leaving aside the huge leap into digital (& there's no point in pretending it hasn't happened), how many of these small, expensive stores would have survived the internet anyway? I buy very little photographic stuff from stores now; likewise household goods (cookers, fridges dishwashers etc), books, maps, DVDs, electronic goods, PC upgrades, printers etc. We stopped the mad rush around the supermarket with a heavy trolley - all that stuff is bought on-line and the supermarket delivers at a time that is convenient to us. We book holidays & travel on-line. All our banking is done on-line (I can't remember the last time I wrote out a cheque). Car, house & travel insurance is all bought on-line. I buy shoes on ebay, I buy shirts on-line & we buy plants & seeds from web-based suppliers. The idea of wasting a day to go traipsing around a busy shopping street dodging the other grumpy shoppers just to see the limited choice in the fly-blown window of a local store is now a joke - the world is now my store and I wouldn't want to go back.

Uncle Bill · Jul 31, 2006

roteague said:
You know, what is sad, is these people actually think they can compete with WalMart, etc. Just last night I went to BestBuy and saw a Nikon D70s for $200 less than the local camera store sells it for. Plus, with these stores you can get instant credit, low payments - try that with the local camera store.

What's more pathetic Rob, Hit Camera is at every camera show in the GTA and they are on the expensive side with their used gear. Oh well the strong survive and the stupid go out of business.

Bill

Peter Schrager · Jul 31, 2006

where art thou?

Peierin-I don't care to get on no pissing match but you ought to re-read what I wrote. Does it give you alot of pleasure to say stupid stuff on the internet so everyone knows your a loser. have a great day, Peter

copake_ham · Jul 31, 2006

Just discovered that the Alkit outlet on 50th and 3rd in NYC has shut down.

Went away for a week's vacation and lo and behold, they were gone with the wind.

Fortunately I didn't have any film left there with them - elsewise I'd have to schelpp down to their main store on 18th and Park Ave So.

They were mainly a "film drop" near a bunch of midtown hotels - never had much traffic these past two years - but makes you wonder....

Fortunately there's an "independent" a couple of blocks away - hopefully this will boost his volume....

pelerin · Aug 1, 2006

Peter Schrager said:
Peierin-I don't care to get on no pissing match but you ought to re-read what I wrote. Does it give you alot of pleasure to say stupid stuff on the internet so everyone knows your a loser. have a great day, Peter

Peter,
I very carefully read what you wrote, and equally carefully quoted it back to you in hopes that you might be privy to some of the contradictions in what you posted. I also avoided ad-hominen attacks but hey, I'm a loser, and we're like that.
Celac.

fhovie · Aug 1, 2006

I went into a Ritz "Outlet store" In Vegas - I just had to. I walked in and was greeted with - "Is there anything I can help you find?" I told him likley not: I told him I needed a Hasselblad lens cap. He asked What thread size. Then I used a word he had never heard before - bayonette. RCA dog look. He said anything else? .... now I figured, what the heck. How about a box of 8x10 TRI-X Film (chuckle chuckle) He directed me to the ONLY analog thing in the store: an Ilford pack of 10 sheets of REAL RC VC paper. I could have as easily found things I could use in a Denny's.

We do have a local poto store in town that does service the local college and has chemistry, papers and film. Basic darkroom supplies and guys that know that real cameras do not have LED screens on the back. Unfortunely, they cannot keep up with B&H and it is the college that keeps this product line alive.

Edwardv · Aug 1, 2006

Finally, I read thru all 13 pages of posting. And found them all very interesting. I support Service Photo, located at 3838 Falls Road, Baltimore, MD. 410-235-6200. The salespersons are quite knowledgeable and helpful. What I like about Service Photo is there shipping department; if you call them before 2 pm; and the item is in stock they will send it out UPS the same day; and provide you live in the DC/Baltimore area you will receive the item the next day; outside the area I am not sure. I do like this service; and it saves me two hours driving time round trip. I hope they will be in business for along time

http://www.servicephoto.com

sales@servicephoto.com

order: 800-344-3776

thebanana · Aug 1, 2006

The last little shop in my town just remodelled their darkroom stuff out of existence. Now it's a 5 hour roundtrip drive to the nearest supplier. Fortunately, Photo Central in Winnipeg is a top notch supplier of all things analog. Knowledgeable, friendly staff, lots of stock and reasonable prices. They don't even use a computerized till. All purchases are handwritten on an invoice. I'm surprised they don't use a shoebox for the cash. You can't go wrong with these folks.

The Sad State of Retail Photography Stores

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