The Sad State of Retail Photography Stores

gnashings · Jun 19, 2006

Stargazer said:
Funny you should say that - that was my immediate response when I read Sandra's post above.
If I know what I want I ALWAYS prefer to buy on-line. There are some shops I will talk to people on the phone, some I won't. Being patronised is, I would say, quite normal. Maybe it happens to men, too, I don't know, but I can hear the voice and attitude change only when it becomes obvious that I know what I'm talking about.
A couple of weeks ago I was in a very well-known branch of a very well-known chain in New Oxford St., downstairs (gottit?). Granted, Saturday afternoon, which I usually avoid, but I was passing and decided to drop in. I waited in the very loose queueing system they have (very like waiting at a bar). Very patiently. Two guys being served already. Another two waiting, before me, they go next. I wait for at least ten-fifteen full minutes, looking patient but expectant, occasionally leaning a little on the counter, just to make sure they know I'm there. The customers leave, in fact for a brief moment there's no-one waiting but me (some other people have given up), I'm about to open my mouth, and the spotty youth behind the counter notices someone (a man) come up and browse something in the display, totally ignores me and asks him if he needs help. The guy doesn't want help, so the assistant makes to go disappear off behind the counter in another direction (tea-break?). I have to hail him "EXCUSE ME!"
It's a while since I've been made to feel so invisible. I realised afterwards if he saw me at all he probably thought I was hanging around waiting for my hubby.

When I asked if they stocked focus-screens for Mamiya RZ's he didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

I have to qualify this by saying I have received expert help from this department in the past, and Saturday is the day for spotty-youths-behind-the-counter. BUT getting attention in the first place is ALWAYS just like being an eighteen-year-old girl waiting for a half a lager and a packet of crisps.

The point about it is, though, silly as the situation was, it did make me feel small. Obviously I've been waiting to express it! Thanks, better now....

RZ? Whoa, there, little lady - that's a mighty big camera... you can hurt yourself with one of those! You can't always expect the man of the house to lug that thing around with you, can you? Now, how about I give you a fair price on a trade in of that brute, and for just a little extra I will set you up with one of those darling little Canon's that Anna Sharapova likes so much. They won't take a shot when the person in the picture is not smiling, and if she can get hers into her little tennis outfit, you will sure fit into your purse with no problems. Now how do you fit an RZ into a purse? Come on, lets be reasonable

Peter.

PS. Please, please, please see the sarcasm and intended humour. Funny story, I worked in auto sales in a former life, and I sold mainly to women. My co-workers accused me of being a flirt (which I suppose I am), but I always told them that had nothing to do with my customers' being largely women. As a matter of fact, I used to tell them, that is one thing that they are so sick and tired of it would definitely not help my income in any way. Just a little respect and no bull crap - worked like a charm. Funny, that...

catem · Jun 19, 2006

gnashings said:
RZ? Whoa, there, little lady - that's a mighty big camera... you can hurt yourself with one of those!

Peter.
.

Do you know, someone actually said that (in almost those very words, and quite seriously) when I was buying something for it! The joke was he was all of 5 ft 4 and I'm 5 ft 8 ! . Which I duly pointed out to him

gnashings · Jun 19, 2006

Stargazer said:
Do you know, someone actually said that (in almost those very words, and quite seriously) when I was buying something for it! The joke was he was all of 5 ft 4 and I'm 5 ft 8 ! . Which I duly pointed out to him

I would PAY to see that! His expression must have been priceless,hehehee

Peter.

kb244 · Jun 19, 2006

I would pay to be present while he said that, and just start handeling my RB67 waiting in line like it was half a pound.

Though I'm male, I will get the comment of weight, and bulk and such from time to time. Basically look at em be like "Oh what? you don't think I can handle this? Look here buddy, I like the weight, the weight is my friend, it lets me know that theres still a few quality cameras out there, and unless you can hold one of these for 10 hours straight in 95F heat, running around the open sun, and still manage to shoot off about 20 rolls Then you can talk." lol. ok ok... now just picture a woman saying that.

Shelly Grimson · Jun 19, 2006

In Toronto try Downtown Camera. They have a large selection of Kodak and Ilford supplies as well as huge stocks of remaining Agfa papers and about 80 litre bottles of rodinal. I don't think you will lack any product needed to continue film/paper process there. As well, Elm Street camera has a huge selection of papers. Mainly Ilford in all sizes as well as Forte, and a few other European brands. They are very knowledgeable and helpful. They also have some Bergger and Forte films and paper etc. Please support these two stores. Why go to Henry's who don't give a damn about us. They don't even have a salesperson who services the section. I often see people just standing there in front of the miserable couple of shelves not knowing what to do. I find I end up helping them clear up questions then feel a bit nervous sending them over to Downtown camera a block away to get real service and a better price.

Uncle Bill · Jun 19, 2006

I second Shelly's recommendation, if you are from the GTA, get over driving into the city and patronise Downtown Camera and 8 Elm Photo. Put simple they have what we need, they know the product, they speak our language and they care. I bought all my chemicals and goodies for developing film at Downtown Camera and got great service. I am happy. I might go back and buy that R3a with 40 Nokton when I get a new job, they deserve the business.

Bill

removed account4 · Jun 19, 2006

here in rhode island we have a few photostores, but the one that i go to is hunts's/sbi. they have people who are knowledgable, and lots of film/chemstry. if they don't have what i ask for, i can usually get in from the "main store" within a few days. i tend to get armloads of 120 and 35mm film from them ( either exp or short date ) for a very good price, and they don't charge shipping, they just do an inter-store transfer

i'm kind of lucky even though risd cut a lot of their traditinal photography classes, the local stores still sell traditional products ....

-john

mjs · Jun 19, 2006

Sometimes better in the boonies

I used to think that living in the middle of nowhere (Elkhart, IN) was a disadvantage, but I may be forced to reconsider. My local camera store still carries 4x5 sheet film, probably as a favor to me and a few others. They don't carry much and only TMX and TMY but it's still a great feeling to be able to charge in at lunch time or early Saturday morning when you've just realized that what you thought was a full box of film sitting on the darkroom shelf was actually the last 3 sheets... They carried Kodak darkroom stuff until Kodak dropped paper, now it's Ilford. It's nice to find chemistry locally but the paper is all RC. There's a local trade school with a decent photography program and several local high schools still teach film photography, so as long as they continue to do so I'll be able to get the basics locally, I think. Interestingly, it's easier to get 4x5 B&W film in my little town than it is in much larger South Bend, 15 miles to the west. Elkhart Camera is the only remaining local camera shop which hasn't been bought out by Gene's over the past eight or nine years. There used to be half a dozen or more shops; now there's just Gene's with three or four locations and Elkhart Camera. It's a tough business.

Last year I had a bad moment when I wanted a couple of rolls of slow speed 35m print film for a project and couldn't find any. My local camera store was out of everything but pro-packs and to me it didn't look as though the 35mm film displays were intended to be re-filled. My bad -- they have all new racks now and carry a good selection of 35mm and medium format film. Lots of B&W; the local schools seem to sell a lot of that for them. And I looked again this weekend and can still buy 35mm Tri-X and Kodak's C-41 B&W film at many local drug stores, although they don't seem to carry transparency film any more.

Chez -- The Ritz at the mall is gone. I was in the mall on Saturday for the first time in 18 months and their space is vacant. No great loss, in my opinion.

mjs

Nick Zentena · Jun 19, 2006

Hell a RZ67 is too heavy for me to handhold and I think a 5x7 is a nice easy to haul format-) I think the committe that designed the RZ67 had a meeting going like this:

" We need to include one more feature!"

" If we make it a little heavier it would be the perfect anchor for the QEII!!!"

" Any other ideas? "

silence

"Okay add the weight"

joneil · Jun 19, 2006

I've gotten to the point where I mostly mail order my film and paper. Pain in the butt, but what's to be done.

However - and maybe this is off on a bit of a tangent - one of my "renewed" hobbies is lapidary - rock tumblers, polishing, etc.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to find basic lapidary supplies? I could take almost all the messages in this thread, substitue words like "HC-110" for "Coarse #60 grit" and you know something, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Then yesterday for Father's Day, I go to the local Chapters bookstore - this is the big chain of bookstores in Canada that are the size of supermarkets, and have a Starbucks built into them. Looking for books on fine woodworking, there are only two shelves of them, all aimed at novices. Nothing specialized or in depth, IMO. At least they now carry Lenswork and VC magazines.

My point is - if you are into *ANYTHING* specialized in today's world - hiking, old car restoration, quilting - anything at all outside of the norm, and if you get onto any of the emailing lists associated with these groups, I would almost bet a year's salary that you would fine an almost identical thread on those message boards as this one.

I am not disagreeing with anything people have said here, i just want to point out, in today's retail market, you try and find any product that is anywhere off the beaten track, you'll find exactly the same problems to one degree or another.

In other words, we are not alone in our persecution.

Doesn't even have to go that far - I gave up on local music stores in the malls a few years ago when I asked a clerk for the latest Diana Krall CD. "Oh, isn't she with all that oldies stuff" the clerk says to me.

Grrrrrrr.......

(just to keep on topic, I find Diana Krall is a perfect companion while in the darkroom - philosophically speaking )

joe

c6h6o3 · Jun 19, 2006

Here in the DC area you can still buy 4x5 sheet film (400TMax and EPY Readyloads are what I buy, but you can also get Portra 160VC and 100TMax Readyloads) at Penn Camera. They also stock 120 roll films and all the Ilford papers and chemistry. So, for the nonce I'm relatively happy.

Things have deteriorated, though. I used to buy 8x10 film down at the old E Street Penn store, across the street from the FBI. Now I have to mail order it.

TheFlyingCamera · Jun 19, 2006

I'm growing more frustrated with Penn camera myself... the lack of anything bigger than 4x5 film, and that they don't stock anything other than Ilford paper is also frustrating. They used to carry Bergger paper, which is my paper of choice, but now they don't keep it on the shelves. Grrrr.

DBP · Jun 19, 2006

Maybe we in the DC area should get together and petition Dominion. They are usually pretty responsive to customers.

avandesande · Jun 19, 2006

You really can't blame digital for this. How many photo stores are selling stuff to do continuous ink or have a good selection of papers for an inkjet printer? How about B+W inks or piezography?

Basically if you want anything good you have to go online or do it by mail order. Not many stores cater to the DIY customer.

Black Dog · Jun 19, 2006

Sadly true, especially if you're right out in the sticks, though when I lived in wiltshire it was possible to get most of what I needed in the nearest town (salisbury). Otherwise it was jump on a train to London (1 +3/4hrs away) or mailorder-usually I'd stock up when I went to see some exhibitions. Luckily Silverprint is only just round the corner from Waterloo stn when you have a big load to carry

Paul Howell · Jun 19, 2006

I live near Arizona State University and Tempe Camera and work near another full service Photo store. Both carry a fairly good selection of film up to 4x5 in color and b&W, developers, but only carry Ilford MC. Color materials are littel thin. In the heat of the Summer (today it will be over 110 F) I don't like to mail order so I make do with what I have or can get locally. ASU has a good photography department and I am little surprised that Tempe Camera does not carry any FB graded paper.

bob100684 · Jun 20, 2006

The real problem in my mind are the "pro labs" which opperate to fuck over consumers. I'm pointing the finger at RITZ camera, Wolfe camera and the like and more specifically at RIDGEFIELD PHOTO. Don't send your jackass tech to my eckerd to buy 50 rolls of kodachrome because your customer special ordered it. and god forbid I ever set foot in that store again. Print from a neopan 400 slide in dr5 sepia developer came out green and black...."well ya know we really dont have any controll over the color, so the color of your slide is the color of the print we make"

gainer · Jun 20, 2006

My closest store was Kramer's in Parkersburg. They are closed after many years. It's no good for a small company to switch to digital. They cannot compete with Wal Mart for digital stuff and there's not enough amateur or professional film business to keep them going. It's mostly the film, paper and chemical sales that kept them going. I cry a lot. When grown men do it we call it "pissing and moaning."

308jockey · Jun 20, 2006

It's kind of funny reading several of these posts. I live in a college town of maybe 43,000 when school is in session. We've had a full service camera store since I was a teenager. I've always been able to pick up any equipment or supplies I needed. Enlarger bulbs? No problem. Any Kodak or Ilford chemistry or paper has been standard. The sales staff is knowledgable on most technologies, are at least courteous and about 25 years of age on average. I bought my D1-X there as well as 2 of my three F2's. This store does a large volume of photofinishing and just spent major money upgrading equipment. They also move a lot of camera gear through the state bid process.

So what are they doing to not just stay in business but thrive while others are going under? They bought the building they are located in several years ago but it is high priced downtown real estate. They are able to keep plenty of inventory in stock and move it. They seem to have both sides of the equasion figured out and my hat is off to them. I wish more local merchants could figure it out. There is literally not another local camera shop within 200 miles of here unless it is in Atlanta and I haven't searched there very hard.

Rick H.

BradS · Jun 20, 2006

Geez, I feel very fortunate. There's Keeble and Shuchat in Palo Alto, Calumet in the city, Kamera Korner in San Jose, Reed's up in Walnut creek...all these places still have plenty of real cameras and film. Most even have a decent selection of darkroom supplies and equipment. K&S has a whole room, as big as some Ritz stores, devoted to darkroom stuff!

m_liddell · Jun 20, 2006

There is only one shop from which I really buy any photographic related things and that is silverprint in London. The people that work there know more than Ill probably ever know about photography and on top of that, I use downtown darkroom for prints so I can go next door and talk to the printer who will be hand printing from my negs. They seem to do good business since so many products are now not easy to get at other places.

I have occasionally bought film at short notice at a local jessops. Most of the staff have difficulties even finding the film that you asked for when the name is written on the box. Often the slide film in the fridge is months (sometimes years) out of date.

The advice (sales pitch) given to people looking at buying digital p&s cameras is horrible and the assistant has clearly not even used it. People naively think that by paying more on the high street they will get researched and impartial advice! Im convinced that the staff there dont actually take photographs beyond drunken snapshots of their mates on a night out. Also, be prepared to be ignored in favour of someone looking for a digicam since the staff are on commission.

I hope retrophotographic and silverprint will be around for years to come and than god for the internet otherwise film would be having an even harder time than it is already.

htmlguru4242 · Jun 20, 2006

I must agree; the normal retail photo stores are not great.

I've never really been near agod photo store, but it would be nice to have one or two around.

The local Ritz camera people have NO idea what they're talking about, even with digital.

When asking for Kodachrome, I was asked if I wanted the "C-14" or "E-6" Kodachrome. I honestly almost laughed ... and didn't bother buying it because nobody could actually find the right stuff ...

ARGH- well, I guess that that's what B&H, etc. are for ...

removed account4 · Jun 20, 2006

there is a store near us that toyo has directed me to as a "dealer" -- only problem is none of the staff ( or managers ) even know what company is, and what a lens board is ...

same store a a few years ago ... ( 2000 )
looking for tmax 400 4x5 film ..
( just in case i get in a jam and need some quick )
saw some on the shelf ( had dust all over it ).
their price was $100 / 100 sheet box!
wiped the dust off, noticed the film *expired* 1996 ...
i asked for the store manager and asked if they would knock something off
since it was OLD ( and too expensive! ) he said : nope, sorry, that's the price .....

haven't been back since ....

i believe in supporting the little guy, unless there is nothing worth supporting.

BradS · Jun 20, 2006

jnanian said:
i believe in supporting the little guy, unless there is nothing worth supporting.

Amen brother, Amen!

David Brown · Jun 20, 2006

htmlguru4242 said:
I've never really been near a good photo store, but it would be nice to have one or two around ...

In another thread, early in May, I posted: "My frustration here in north Texas (Dallas), is that there is enough of a community to support one, good store. But, we don't have one, we have several, none of whom can stock a complete inventory.

I got spoiled growing up in San Antonio, where there was a firm called Southwest Photo Supply, a "professional stockhouse". It was like an auto parts place. There was a counter, and behind the counter were people who knew what they were doing. Whatever I asked for, they could go in the back and bring it to me! There were no other camera stores in the area of any significance, but it didn't matter. SWP had everything.

In 1989, I moved to Dallas. No SWP. There were many, little neighborhood camera shops that had enough Kodak chemicals and paper to get by. Now, half of those stores are gone, and the other half have pitiful inventories. The irony is that most of them are trying, because there is still B&W analog being taught in some of the local high schools and junior colleges. But, none of them can stock a good inventory. However, I really believe one store could probably pull it off."

Then, later in the month, I posted that I had gone out with a short shopping list of 6 items, gone to two stores, and come home with only 3 of the 6.

I give up. I'm going mail order. Sad, but true.

But ya know, if it's any consolation, it's not just photo supplies. My wife sews. She gets almost all her fabric now via the internet. Can't find good stuff locally. :rolleyes:

The Sad State of Retail Photography Stores

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