The Sad State of Retail Photography Stores

Wayne Olson · Jun 17, 2006

This may be a bit off topic but I just had to relate it to the silver halide addict group here.

I went down to the local BIG photo retailer in these parts, Samy's, and went to the ever diminishing darkroom supply section. You know, the section that isn't jammed with yammering digital nincompoops. I just wanted a bottle of selenium toner. Simple, common darkroom item. Or so one would think.

None on the shelf. Odds and ends. True, a few bags of Dektol, some fixers, some HCA, even a forlorn looking bag of Farmer's Reducer! But no selenium toner. Neither Berg's or KRST.

Of couse, what one does in this case is ask the clerk, right? Nope. He was maybe early twenties and, judging by the mostly incorrect information he was giving some doubtful looking young ladies, he fancied himself a digital expert. I listened for a few minutes and realized that he was full of &#* as a Christmas turkey.

So, he asks if I had a question. Indeed I did. I asked if they had any selenium toner. I got the RCA Victor dog look. You know, the old logo with the dog looking at the phonograph with his head cocked to the side. The "I have no idea what you're talking about" look.

"What's it for?" he asks rather condescendingly.
"
"It's for toning black and white prints and rendering them more archival."

Still the puzzled look. Then, the light comes on.

"Why don't you just do it in Photoshop?"

I was stunned. I didn't know what to say. But being the consummate smarta** that I am (on top of getting to be a cranky old man), I couldn't help myself. I just had to say it.

"Nope," I replied, "the damned computer just won't fit into the developing tray!". With that I left, my hope for the young and creative component of the culture just that much more eroded.

This is true. I couldn't possibly make something like this up. Oh well, it's off to Freestyle Photo in Hollyweird tomorrow. I generally avoid L.A. and it's immediate environs (whoopee, I live in Orange County, CA - draw your own conclusions) but it seems like it's the only place left in this part of the world that remembers the core and soul of the art.

Anyone else have such a delightful experience or is my age and cynicism showing?

Good light to all and may your darkroom never have a light leak!

Wayne

athanasius80 · Jun 17, 2006

I'm 25 and an OC resident too. I find that most of the young people (under 50) have no idea what I'm talking about. So yeah, you're not alone.

fschifano · Jun 17, 2006

Wayne,

Celebrate your age and crankiness. We've reached an age at which we can be cantankerous and not give a d**m what others may think of it.

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 17, 2006

Wayne Olson said:
I went down to the local BIG photo retailer in these parts, Samy's, and went to the ever diminishing darkroom supply section.

Been in that same store - April 4, 2004 to be exact. Purchased some Rodinal and Kodachrome and various darkroom accessories to take back to Washington state where I live.

When I asked for the Rodinal the person to whom I was speaking had to go find someone else. When I asked for the Kodachrome it took two people to find it. When they found it in a drawer I also noticed cartridges of Kodachrome 8mm movie film. I inquired as to the last time they sold a box. The salesperson said, "What is it?" It was easier to just shrug my shoulders and leave.

As I walked out I spied a used Leica M6 in the glass case. I thought about taking a look, but didn't want to hear the lame excuses about why it had no LCD preview screen.

It was a long drive home...

Ken

david b · Jun 17, 2006

Well, I once went into a local store here in NM and the sales person did not know what Tri-X was.

But just today, I went to the new camera shop in Santa Fe on 2nd street, and they are loaded with film, paper, and chemicals. The only thing missing was the hypo-chek that I was looking for. They had both Kodak and Ilford products and are always awesome to deal with. Plus, they will match NY prices just to get the business.

Behind the counter, the displays are loaded with film cameras from Mamiya, Leica and Hasselblad. It's a beautiful sight.

Chazzy · Jun 17, 2006

I go to a local camera store which has some people who really do know what they are talking about, but the line I always get is "we don't carry that, but we can special order it for you." In the olden days, we had several camera stores here, so what I didn't find at one I might find at another. But, one by one, they have closed, leaving just the "we can special order it for you" place and a tiny Ritz Photo in one of the malls. It's no wonder that there is a booming business over the Internet for places like B&H and Freestyle. Anymore they get practically all of my business, along with eBay.

Curt · Jun 17, 2006

It's fading away. I used to go into Samy's. While I was living in Southern Cal. I would just go into Freestyle. For a population as large as LA there isn't much now days in the way of Camera shops. Maybe there never was. We who are old enough remember going to the corner drug store and buying Tri-X or Kodachrome then developing the BW at home and sending the chrome out to the nearest Kodak lab. Anyone ever remember their film gong to Palo Alto? Those were the days. You could get it processed over night or less.

Curt

roteague · Jun 17, 2006

The largest camera in Hawaii recently closed up after 40+ years of business. A few years ago they dropped most of the analog stuff, and tried to sell consumer digital equipment - they learned that they just couldn't compete with WalMart, CompUSA, Ritz and all the others who specialize in that business. I quit shopping in there a few years ago, because of their "superiorty of digital" attitude, and started buying through Calumet.

Wigwam Jones · Jun 17, 2006

I am sorry to hear it is hitting the larger metropolitan areas now too. Out in the hinterlands, all the camera stores are gone. All of them. Not even the ersatz "Ritz" survived the Walmarts and the digital cameras. One reads, if one cares to, newspaper story after story about family photographic businesses that have been handed down from father to son which are now sadly closing their doors.

I am reduced to making all my film and chemical purchases mail-order, with the single exception of buying remaindered Walgreens Studio 35 née Agfa Vista color film when they had a brief shining fire sale some months back.

A year ago, the local drugstores still sold slide film, but the clerks did not know what it was, it could not be procesed locally, and they had no concept what a slide might look like when you described to them why you did not want 'one print or two' when they relieved you of the roll. Now, they no longer sell slide film. In fact, they sell nothing more than the most common C41 and one-shot cameras.

It is not too much of a burden to transact by mail order, except that with minimum orders and shipping times, one has to plan ahead, rather than simply running down to the local high street shop.

And of course, there is the occasional irritation by an online chum who lives in the heart of London or NYC and who has a 'let them eat cake' attitude, blithely unaware that the rest of the world *is* facing the twilight of film, even if they can take approving note of the newest emulsions just released and available at twenty-eleven shops within walking distance. They really should get out more.

Jim Chinn · Jun 17, 2006

That is just the reality of a world that is 90% digital. In my area (metro population 800,000) we have one camera store that has a very small section of analog supplies and only one color lab for custom processing.

The real problem was demonstrated the other day when I stopped by during thier annual tent sale. Prices like $5.75 for a 24exp roll of 135 FP4 and $105 for a 100 sheet box of Ilford MGIV. You have to be an idiot to pay those prices considering what you can pay ordering from B&H or Freestyle. I told a couple of girls who were there getting paper and film for a local community college class where to look online for supplies.

At those prices I don't think the store has any interest in analog other then to gouge customers.

Nick Zentena · Jun 17, 2006

The local shop the "kids" are actually more likely to know about the darkroom section. Many are either in school or just out and have at least seen a darkroom this century.

Jim Noel · Jun 17, 2006

I am afraid the anti analog virus is universal. ALthough there are still ostensibly 4 large camera stores in my area, including Calumet, most of the personnel are totally unfamiliar with our needs. I buy nearly everything via mail order.

As for Samy's, they have opened a "Darkroom" store about a block and a half south of the main store. It is small and easily missed, but well supplied. I have only been there once and trust that it is still open. Of course for those in the LA Area there is still Freestyle which seems to be making an effort to keep analog supplied.

DBP · Jun 17, 2006

I was very pleasantly surprised when I was in Easton, Maryland a few weeks ago and wandered into the local photo store (Hobby Horse was the name, I think). My attention had been grabbed by the two shelves of antique cameras. But he carried most of the absolute basics - both Kodak and Ilford black and white films, a variety of chromes, and some basic darkroom chemicals (D-76, Dektol, fixer, stop, etc.). I talked with the owner for a while and he said he intends to support wet darkrooms as long as he can afford to do so, though his business is already 50% digital. Easton is about as far into the hinterlands as one can go and still be driving distance from a seaport, though it does have a large artists community, which helps.

Still, commonly available sources are fading fast. Two years ago I could still get Kodachrome, Tri-X, and Elite Chrome at the local Target, along with a decent variety of Kodak and Fuji C-41 films. Now I never see it anywhere that doesn't have 'Photo' or 'Camera' on the front door. It's even getting hard to find 100 speed Kodak Gold or Fuji Superia.

firecracker · Jun 17, 2006

Once in a while I need to call the stores in Tokyo and ask for the items I cannot find in my area (Nagoya and Osaka). When I tell them I live far from there, their attitudes start to change. They get pretty mean sometimes.

This "Tokyo attitude" I must call, is pretty amazing, nastier than the big-city attitudes I was kind of used to in the U.S when I was living there.

But in general young employees in not only stores but restaurants, bars, etc are not so knowledgeable about what they are selling. But it's okay. They'll learn.

Harry Lime · Jun 17, 2006

>I went down to the local BIG photo retailer in these parts, Samy's, and went to the >ever diminishing darkroom supply section.

Samy's in Venice?

At the Fairfax store (near MOMA) they moved all of the darkroom stuff to a small hole in the wall storefront, 100 yards from the main building. Looks pretty sad, but at least they have everything in stock, except they keep selling out of DD-X.

But I know EXACTLY what you mean. Don't you just love it when you get heckeled by the sales staff, because you are still shooting film? ;-)

Kino · Jun 17, 2006

In Dayton, Ohio, (actually nearby Fairborn, Ohio) we have Fairborn Camera. While a substantial portion of the store has gone to digital and digital related stuff, the other half is stuffed with Illford, Kodak and even some Agfa materials. They have a small selection of nice used cameras from 35mm to 5x7 (there was a nice cherry Century there the last time I visited a week ago) and even sell used darkroom gear. As for chemistry, they have E-6, C-41 and b&w with a nice selection of toners and other goods. In fact, I can't think of thing they don't have... Their prices are reasonable considering their storefront and location, so I try to buy there when I can. Best of all, when you ask for Rodinal, they grin -- they don't look confused -- and are as likely to share a story or two about their favorite dilution! A gem of a store in the SouthWest of Ohio...

Joe Lipka · Jun 17, 2006

Chazzy - Would that be Ault's?

Wigwam - Head to Raleigh, Peace Street Camera is alive and well. (The partners that owned Southeastern split. Peace Street Camera is at the old Southeastern location. Southeastern moved to Cary.)

gnashings · Jun 17, 2006

Add me to the list. I don't know if I qualify as old, but definitely getting cranky.
I am really tired of the "its just not selling so we don't carry it" line.
Used, beat up Canon A1 body - $399. AE1 in worse shape - $249 (with a ON SALE sticker! The gall!). The apparent reason for the prices is "because its just not selling"...
Ever think that "it" is "not selling" because of the prices? AND the fact that you don't want to be selling it?
Believe it or not, there is a large group of film users out there (I know, shocking news on APUG!), and I quite often see one walk in, and walk back ot after being given another stupid look, another well, its just not selling so we don't have it answer, another little bit of attitude, another bit of being made aware of what a nuisance they are. And they leave. And behind them stays the stuff they originally wanted, that is now "just not selling".
I really don't think that a lot of the traditional phot stuff was dropped as a result of digital - I think the majority suffered from the proprietors chasing the percieved easy money, the goose that lays golden eggs - digital. And guess what - now they are going out of business, because they are not Wal Mart, not Bussiness Depot, Future Shop - whatever big-box store. They had a niche, and they dumped it for the greener grass they thought they saw. And now they are crying that they lost their business because of people no buying photo equipment the way they used to. No kidding - they stopped about the same time you stopped selling it and supporting it. They might as well have gone into washers and driers.
And my latest little tid-bit of fun at the biggest photo chain in Canada:
"Do you want all these films in 24 or 36 exp?"
-"36 please - and I will also have a roll of HP5+ in 120"
"Huh?"
-"120 - the long, skinny rolls"
"oh... (insert puzzled look)... but... this only comes in 24 exposures..."
I rest my case. I don't have much cash, but I would be willing to bet that you don't get that at JandC - unless I just got lucky (note the sarcasm). Speaking of which, I wonder how that guy is still in business - all he has is stuff that is "just not selling"

Peter.

Wigwam Jones · Jun 17, 2006

Joe Lipka said:
Chazzy - Would that be Ault's?

Wigwam - Head to Raleigh, Peace Street Camera is alive and well. (The partners that owned Southeastern split. Peace Street Camera is at the old Southeastern location. Southeastern moved to Cary.)

Two-hour drive to Raleigh's Peace Street Camera for me - gas at nearly three bucks a gallon - nope. I've been there, it's nice. Can't afford to go back.

aoresteen · Jun 17, 2006

Well, I've been forced to mail order most of my supplies for 20 years now. I don't go to ANY retail shops if I can help it. I just order on line. No fuss, no dumb looks, no spending 20 minutes TEACHING the clerk what they should know.

One of he local camera stores has some very knowledable lads (two I know shoot 4x5). I told them a month ago that their Microdol-X had expired. It's still on the shelf. I do use their lab as they will develop, print, and scan 120 fim. And I did buy a Domke F6 bag as it was only $5 more than B&H and I wanted it for the weekend. But for the most part it is B&H and ebay for me. I asked them for their price on an Olympus E1 body. $1200. Bought a new on on Ebay for $427.

The good news is that we have dealers like JandC, B&H, Freestyle etc and we don't need a local dealer. Just UPS or FedEx!

aoresteen · Jun 17, 2006

Well, I've been forced to mail order most of my supplies for 20 years now. I don't go to ANY retail shops if I can help it. I just order on line. No fuss, no dumb looks, no spending 20 minutes TEACHING the clerk what they should know.

One of he local camera stores has some very knowledable lads (two I know shoot 4x5). I told them a month ago that their Microdol-X had expired. It's still on the shelf. I do use their lab as they will develop, print, and scan 120 fim. And I did buy a Domke F6 bag as it was only $5 more than B&H and I wanted it for the weekend. But for the most part it is B&H and ebay for me. I asked them for their price on an Olympus E1 body. $1200. Bought a new on on Ebay for $427.

The good news is that we have dealers like JandC, B&H, Freestyle etc and we don't need a local dealer. Just UPS or FedEx!

julio F · Jun 17, 2006

Downtown Montevideo pro photography store (they have a large Pro Kodak sign,anyway, and believe me this is a photographers's city):

Q: I want some 120 film, please

A: Sorry, only 100 and 400.

JonPorter · Jun 17, 2006

I guess we're a photography oasis here in the San Francisco Bay Area. In the 50 miles between Frisco and San Jose there are several camera stores that carry good selections of film and darkroom supplies, including European film. How much longer they'll be able to do so is anyone's guess, but I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that eventually I'll probably have to mail order all my supplies.

HerrBremerhaven · Jun 17, 2006

I think mail order and internet sales have killed off many local photographic supply places. Considering how fast shipping can be, I don't think this is terrible. I try to buy locally when the pricing is close; easy to do when I am in San Diego, but getting tougher in Houston (any suggestions?).

Since I do oil painting and traditional arts, I am usually able to find one or two stores that have what I need, though rarely ever in the big chain stores like Micheal's or Aaron Brothers. If film imaging heads the way of strictly fine arts (maybe just B/W?) then perhaps some art stores will start to cater to that audience.

As for young workers and old customers, all I can state is what I hear too often from my Mom, or other old people: there is little pride left in low paying work, little knowledge, and customer service is often missing. It seems the attitude in low paying jobs is that people only need to know enough to ensure the next paycheck is coming; while not always that way, it seems the rare helpful people often move on to better jobs. Partially that is due to management that feels they can easily replace people, so they end up not caring for their workers. I know some business owners who do care for their workers, make sure they are happy, and it is obvious when people enjoy working somewhere; unfortunately none of those friends of mine are running camera stores.

Ciao!

Gordon

Petzi · Jun 17, 2006

In my part of the world I have never seen a bottle of selenium toner on any shelf in any photographic store ever, not now and not 20 years ago. It's just too special. 20 years ago I didn't even know where to order it, it was something a retailer might have gotten from Kodak if he had known who to talk to. It was something that some people (like me) had read about in Ansel Adams' books.

The Sad State of Retail Photography Stores

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency