The right questions

So this thread (there was a url link here which no longer exists) got me thinking that the wrong questions were being asked and answered... for me.

Over the years it has become important for me to look at what I want at the end and then to back up one step at a time from there. We don't always get what we want though for a gazillion reasons. That thread does have merit because or kits do limit us but that's not always bad.

So for example I'm moving to Portland and into an apartment and just closed down my darkroom, all the enlargers are packed and will probably stay that way for a year or so with the exception of the Elwood which will be repurposed for a lit coffee table/conversation piece until we buy a house and all that jazz.

I'll probably be using a lab for snaps but plan to contact print too. Given my kit, this provides an interesting physical constraint that I had pooh poohed before. (The largest individual print I will be making is 4x5. The largest paper I'll be using is 8x10, Color correction would be daunting. Adjusting contrast will also be a challenge.) So I'm looking at making "Little B&W Gems" and contact sheets that are the finished product.

That creates new challenges in how I compose and work in all formats because I want to be able to see the subject and how I shoot to tell a story in order with a whole roll of film becoming the print.

Given these constraints what are some of the questions I should be asking?

And in a broader sense, are "you" asking the right questions? What are your constraints and goals?

markbarendt said:

I'm moving to Portland and into an apartment...
... physical constraint ...

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Hi,

how big is your apartment? I live in 50 square meters (540 square feet) with my wife and a cat - and I have fully functional darkroom in bathroom (it is a pain to move everything from storage to bathroom and back every time - but it works).

Maybe you need something like this:

http://ussrphoto.com/wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=128&ParentID=3&ContentID=1511

markbarendt said:

What are your constraints and goals?

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My goal is to have one room more that will be a dedicated darkroom.

The apartment size isn't the constraint, my goals are: using my camera kit (35mm, 6x7, 4x5) and contact printing. It's a "fun" constraint. It's a different way of looking at things. I want to learn how to do a good job within these limits. I'm trying to figure out what questions about say composition, exposure, ... I should be asking, not looking for ways to print bigger or for new tools.

With regard to your want of a full dedicated darkroom, I'd ask, why? What I'm asking is, what is the product you want to create and what questions do you need to ask yourself to figure out how to get there? Questions like, How do you get you subjects to the "right" size in the print?

I just bought the book: The Ongoing moment - Geoff Dyer. It begins with a quote:

"(...) the setting down of a limited catalogue of endles things." (Jorge Luis borges)

Maybe that's my problem with my photography as well ...

markbarendt said:

With regard to your want of a full dedicated darkroom, I'd ask, why? What I'm asking is, what is the product you want to create and what questions do you need to ask yourself to figure out how to get there? Questions like, How do you get you subjects to the "right" size in the print?

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Well, I would like to spend more time in darkroom without hurrying up (for example 16 hours - now not possible). Bathroom has other more important functions . Also my print sizes are now max 30x40cm, I would like to be able to get larger when needed, and to have 4x5 enlarger. My sister would like to have print of 1x1,5 meters size of one picture that I made in Venice - and right now I can not do it.

How to get there? Simple, I must find bigger apartment .

If your 4x5 camera has a removable back then you might investigate using it as and enlarger also for 4x5, MF, and 35mm as needed. Then you won't need a dedicated enlarger occupying valuable space. You don't need running water for your darkroom, and the walls of your "dark-space" need not be permanent. In a pinch I could use my old 5x7 camera as an enlarger. A simple lamp-house was all it needed. I made that from mat board, duct tape and a shop lamp. I use tap water from a plastic gallon bottle, and black plastic sheeting is used for the dark-space walls. When living in a small space you really need to put yourself in that Brady-Gardner-Cooley-Jackson mindset. You're working out of a small covered wagon, you have the sun in your face, and it's going to be a long long journey. Do you give up, or do you find solutions? I've been working like this for ages. It's liberating to know that you can accomplish tasks, where others only see a show-stopper.

Dann, I've got plenty of enlargers.

Not really looking to print bigger than the contacts I talkedabout above, in the house.

I'm looking at this as an artistic challenge not a technical problem.

Shades of Weston with a bare bulb hanging from the ceiling. The technical stuff is the easy part. Making these "little gems" look good and work visually is the challenge.

How do I plan & shoot a full roll of 35mm in a way that tells a story in order?

How many shots should I roll into my 35mm cassettes to make the contact sheet look good?

....?

Another way of putting that is to say "I have an end in mind (small b&w contact prints), how do I make them work well visually? What would make them interesting?

markbarendt said:

Another way of putting that is to say "I have an end in mind (small b&w contact prints), how do I make them work well visually? What would make them interesting?

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The answer. Make them larger.

It sounds to me that moving into an apartment is the cause, and making 4x5 contact prints is the effect. So, why are we limiting ourselves to making 4x5 contact prints? Is it for the challenge?

Hi Mark. Yours is one approach to photography. It is analytical and logical.

One can also have an intuitive, gut feeling approach.

Most use a blend of both, I imagine. The best balance of these approaches is an individual thing, dependent on each person's unique personality.

The extremes can be seen as clinical and heartless, or air-headed and directionless.

DannL. said:

The answer. Make them larger.

It sounds to me that moving into an apartment is the cause, and making 4x5 contact prints is the effect. So, why are we limiting ourselves to making 4x5 contact prints? Is it for the challenge?

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Part is for the challenge, part is practicality and time available, a bigger part though is to force some more artistic learning and choices and creativity.

Part of the point of the thread though is that I defined a product I want and the tools. Now I need to figure it out.

This is in contrast to buying a camera or whatever and then looking for a product to make.

Sometimes new gear inspires, or makes new things possible.

Sometimes new gear inspires, or makes new things possible.

Sometimes new gear inspires, or makes new things possible.

Actually, I just did what you said. I identified a product, in my case pictures taken with vintage lenses in barrel and simple 1 element lenses, then procured a piece of gear (bronica s2s) to achieve the desired result.

Btw, this will be my first piece of new gear in 2 years. (Just in case I'm giving the wrong impression.)

I think the only obstacle you're going to face is the boredom that will come after making about twenty or thirty 4x5 contact prints. Variety is the spice of life. You'll soon crave something larger, and so, I would suggest that you make allowances for that. In other words . . . don't stifle your own creativity because of size. We create our own hurdles so that we can jump over them.

It sounds as if you might be bored after 20 or 30 5x4 contacts, but it doesn't therefore follow that mark will be ...

pdeeh said:

It sounds as if you might be bored after 20 or 30 5x4 contacts, but it doesn't therefore follow that mark will be ...

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That's perty obvious. Don't you think?

markbarendt said:

Another way of putting that is to say "I have an end in mind (small b&w contact prints), how do I make them work well visually? What would make them interesting?

Click to expand...

keep your compositions simple, particularly if you are thinking contact prints from 35mm. I have a roll of film from school that contact printed with no other manipulation looks cool. Somehow none of the images work as enlargements. Take your contact sheet, I'm thinking 35mm again, and cut the contacts into single frames, then rearrange into a mosaic with or without space between some of the frames. Mount and put under glass and use that for your coffee table.

Steve

P.S. Spur of the moment advice.
P.P.S. which I may follow myself
P.P.P.S. Hmmmmm........

DannL. said:

I think the only obstacle you're going to face is the boredom that will come after making about twenty or thirty 4x5 contact prints. Variety is the spice of life. You'll soon crave something larger, and so, I would suggest that you make allowances for that. In other words . . . don't stifle your own creativity because of size. We create our own hurdles so that we can jump over them.

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I can always send off the neg to a lab if I want it bigger. I can also print the negatives bigger when I get back into a darkroom.

Sometimes boundaries, artificial or real, actually spur creativity.

Another thought regarding the boredom. One thing that contact printing can do real well is to make printing a very simple minimalist exercise, which pushes the focus of the work toward the camera. Camera work is fun.

pdeeh said:

It sounds as if you might be bored after 20 or 30 5x4 contacts, but it doesn't therefore follow that mark will be ...

Click to expand...

scheimfluger_77 said:

keep your compositions simple, particularly if you are thinking contact prints from 35mm. I have a roll of film from school that contact printed with no other manipulation looks cool. Somehow none of the images work as enlargements. Take your contact sheet, I'm thinking 35mm again, and cut the contacts into single frames, then rearrange into a mosaic with or without space between some of the frames. Mount and put under glass and use that for your coffee table.

Steve

P.S. Spur of the moment advice.
P.P.S. which I may follow myself
P.P.P.S. Hmmmmm........

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I like that Steve

Michael R 1974 said:

In some cases a small contact print (say 4x5) can even enhance the aesthetic and/or tactile experience.

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That's one of the things I'm hoping for. I've been putting 11x14s in some peoples hands and there are a fair number of wow-thats-bigs. Not everybody has room for big prints.

At the risk of being, as they say, perty obvious ... The questions you ask are aesthetic ones rather than technical ones, so in one sense at least there's little advice to be offered, only ideas.

A few years ago I was given a set of three black and white 35mm transparencies, unmounted but enclosed in a three-compartment perspex cylinder.

They each depict the same tiny scene but with three different planes of focus.

In itself it is a nice object, but more than that it is layered up with ideas and meanings.

the point being, of course that much can be achieved with small things if one's imagination is suitably engaged

pdeeh said:

At the risk of being, as they say, perty obvious ... The questions you ask are aesthetic ones rather than technical ones, so in one sense at least there's little advice to be offered, only ideas.

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Exactly!

Questions not answers.

Not to put to fine a point on it but the hard work of photography is emotional not technical.

markbarendt said:

Another way of putting that is to say "I have an end in mind (small b&w contact prints), how do I make them work well visually? What would make them interesting?

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The first question I would ask is: who can I learn from? Who has been down this path, and created good art with similar constraints? There are many answers, but I'll volunteer one to start with: Ed Weston.