The Right Medium Format Camera - Take Two

Nathan King · Oct 31, 2015

I owned a Mamiya RZ67 but sold it because it was too large; however, I feel that I could use a medium format system to compliment my 35mm rangefinder. Several criteria that any camera system would need to satisfy are:

Must be an SLR (I love my 35mm rangefinder, but I need a medium format system that would not have the same weaknesses)
Must have the option for a prism finder (I never could get accustomed to the left/right reversal)
Must be smaller than the RZ67. Weight wasn't the issue, it was the bulk.
A system with interchangeable backs is preferred, but not required.
Studio flash synchronization at all speeds (leaf shutter) is preferred, but not required.

Of the medium format systems I am familiar with, it appears that the following cameras fit my criteria (bold also meet optional requirements):

Hasselblad 50(x) series
Mamiya 645 Pro TL
Mamiya 645 AFD
Contax 645
Pentax 645
Pentax 67 II
Rollei SL66
Bronica ETRSi

I find the simplicity and ergonomics of the Pentax 67 II appealing despite not meeting my optional criteria. I have heard that the Hasselblad finders are dim/difficult to focus, and I'd rather have a bright viewfinder than interchangeable backs and flash synchronization any day of the week. Does anybody have an opinion on how the Hasselblad, Bronica, and Pentax finders compare in terms of brightness and ease of focus, assuming I had an acute matte screen installed? I'm crossing the Contax and Rollei off my list because there are very limited repair options and no NOS parts left. I'm terrified I'd have a $2,000 paperweight. Am I missing any good systems that fit my needs?

Dan Fromm · Oct 31, 2015

Medium format is not medium format is not medium format. 645 is not the same as 6x6 is not the same as 6x7.

Given what you've said, pick your maximum size and then start thinking. All of you candidates' dimensions have been published many times.

Or pick your format first ("medium format" is much too vague) and then start trying cameras out. The best way to find out whether you don't like a camera is to handle it.

Alan W · Oct 31, 2015

If 6x7 is what you like,you don't have any options in the SLR department besides the Pentax 67(that I can think of).I have used the RZ67 and the Pentax 67,both were too heavy and bulky for me.I preferred the RZ but who wants to leave home with 20lbs of equipment?I sold every 6x7 camera I ever had-RB,RZ,Pentax,Rapid Omega and settled on the Mamiya 7.I use it now with the 65mm and 43mm lenses.Its a very lightweight outfit that fits in a small bag.I have a Hasselblad 500cm as well,a very nice camera but heavier than the Mamiya 7 and therefore nowhere near as portable and quick to use.I use it at home for portraits mostly,and I do love it.The fact that you cant use extra backs on the Mamiya 7 is not a problem for me,it's just 10 shots to a roll of 120 after all.No options in viewfinders or extra screens make it a very clearcut,instant and useable camera.If I were you I'd consider it.You'll get plenty of advice and opinions but nothing will beat holding and trying out something yourself.

Alan Gales · Oct 31, 2015

Since you like 6x7 and you also like rangefinders have you considered a Mamiya 7?

I had a Hasselblad 500/cm. It had the original focussing screen which I didn't like and a Beattie Intenscreen. The Beattie was a joy to use. I have heard that the later Hasselblad Acute Matte screens are as bright or brighter than the Beattie. I have also owned a Mamiya RZ67 and the Hasselblad was much lighter.

I agree with Dan. First decide upon format and then look at camera availability. Also if possible try the model out before you buy. I've owned Mamiya RZ67, Hasselblad 500/cm, Bronica EC, S2a, ETRsi, Pentax 645, 645n and 645Nll. I have handled my buddy's Rollei SL66 and Pentax 6x7 cameras. They were all different!

removed-user-1 · Oct 31, 2015

Look at the Bronica GS1. 6x7cm SLR with interchangeable backs, prism finder option, definitely smaller than an RB and reasonably handhold-able with the speed grip, and leaf shutter lenses.

winger · Nov 1, 2015

I agree with Dan.

And I have a Hasselblad 503cxi and a Pentax 645N. I use the P645N waaayyyyyy more, even though the Hasselblad's image quality is excellent. Both are easy to focus, light-wise, but I don't have a prism for the Hasselblad so it's reversed L/R (which annoys me). The P645N is like a 35mm on steroids, as far as I'm concerned. If I want a larger negative of something, I use the 4x5, otherwise I'd consider a 6x7.

Richard S. (rich815) · Nov 1, 2015

None from your list are bad. Prices have stabilized for the most part. Buy the one you feel you'd like like, use it. Sell if you don't like it. Even if not a 100% recoup it will be a very cheap rental period.

lxdude · Nov 1, 2015

Nathan King said:
Of the medium format systems I am familiar with, it appears that the following cameras fit my criteria (bold also meet optional requirements):

Hasselblad 50(x) series

Mamiya 645 Pro TL

Mamiya 645 AFD

Contax 645

Pentax 645

Pentax 67 II

Rollei SL66

Bronica ETRSi

Bronica SQA, SQB, SQAi

Alan Gales · Nov 1, 2015

winger said:
I agree with Dan.

And I have a Hasselblad 503cxi and a Pentax 645N. I use the P645N waaayyyyyy more, even though the Hasselblad's image quality is excellent. Both are easy to focus, light-wise, but I don't have a prism for the Hasselblad so it's reversed L/R (which annoys me). The P645N is like a 35mm on steroids, as far as I'm concerned. If I want a larger negative of something, I use the 4x5, otherwise I'd consider a 6x7.

I think a lot more people would shoot those 645n's and 645nll's if they knew how much fun they are!

Sirius Glass · Nov 1, 2015

Nathan King said:
Of the medium format systems I am familiar with, it appears that the following cameras fit my criteria (bold also meet optional requirements):

Hasselblad 50(x) series

Mamiya 645 Pro TL

Mamiya 645 AFD

Contax 645

Pentax 645

Pentax 67 II

Rollei SL66

Bronica ETRSi

The Hasselblad 50x is more compact and better built than the Bronica. I have the Hasselblad 503 CX and the Hasselblad 903 SWC. Go Hasselblad and you will never look back.

philipus · Nov 1, 2015

Apart from the 500C/M I haven't used the cameras you list but only wanted to say the view in my 203FE is very bright and clear. Depending on what kit you want to buy, and where you shop, it can be found for 2k.

mr rusty · Nov 1, 2015

I find using an optitech strap I can carry my Mamiya 645J around with barely any more difficulty than a 35mm. Little bit bulkier but the padded strap alleviates the extra weight. The 645J is the original Mamiya without the interchangeable back and is fairly compact but solid metal construction. I use mine with a prism finder which certainly adds weight but allows me to use it like a 35mm slr. Would be smaller/lighter with a WLF, but then I'd lose the inbuilt metering.

frank · Nov 1, 2015

Everyone needs to find their own camera. What feels right to one, doesn't work for another. I've found mine: the hasselblad 500cm. There is a reason why the Hasselblad was the overwhelming choice of so many pros before digital took over.

blockend · Nov 1, 2015

It depends what you mean by compact. I can't think of any 120 camera that has a prism which could be described as compact. My criterion is a camera that can be carried on the off chance of finding the right subject, without wishing I'd left it at home if I don't fine one. Or put another way, a camera that doesn't inhibit you from doing anything you'd normally do. Most are folders, 6x4.5 rangefinders come close, beyond that is camera bag terrain with the commitment that suggests.

If I have to take a bag, the larger the negative the better.

film_man · Nov 1, 2015

You missed the Hasselblad H1/2. Pricewise they are cheaper than a Contax 645 and you can still get them serviced.

Depending on what you want I'd say if you want 645 then I'd pick a H1/H2 or the Pentax 645 based on your criteria preference. The H1 has the brightest viewfinder I've ever seen. The Pentax is 1/3 of the money and with an adapter you can use the 6x7 lenses, like that amazing 105. I'd probably go down the Pentax route as I could see myself ending up with a 67 too.

For the Hassy 50x, I shot with a 501CM and a PM90 prism for 5+ years. An amazing camera but eventually got rid of it as I find my RB67 and Mamiya 6 nicer to use. In the end this is a square camera made to be used at waist level. You put a prism on and you can still use it but it just isn't that nice and you wrist starts hurting after a while. The left hand grips are sh*t. For the viewfinder, if you get a Hassy with an Acute Matte D screen and a late type PM90 prism then this is a very bright and nice viewfinder, I'd say one of the best I've ever used. The brightest I've used so far is the Hasselblad H1.

On the H1, great lenses, nice AF, fantastic viewfinder but apart from that it is a plastic fantastic with an awkward shaped grip that I never found comfortable. Plus it is a heavy beast. I'd rather have a 500 instead.

The Pentax 67 is 6x7. So you either want 6x7 or you don't.

I had a ETRS for a while, nice system and it is probably the smallest and lightest of all the ones you listed but then again it is the most basic. It is also non-repairable but for the price they go for who cares.

So basically, do you want 645, 6x6 or 6x7? With your budget I'd probably be between Pentax 645, Hassy 50x and Pentax 67.

MattKing · Nov 1, 2015

Every time I read the thread title I think that it is a recommendation to carry two medium format cameras!

ignatiu5 · Nov 1, 2015

Richard S. (rich815) said:
None from your list are bad. Prices have stabilized for the most part. Buy the one you feel you'd like like, use it. Sell if you don't like it. Even if not a 100% recoup it will be a very cheap rental period.

frank said:
Everyone needs to find their own camera. What feels right to one, doesn't work for another. {snip}

I think the above is very sound advice that I use regularly. There is nothing in your list that doesn't have rave reviews from many. The only way (in my opinion) to figure out if the strengths, weaknesses, and foibles of any of them makes it the right one for you is to put it in your hands and shoot the things you like to shoot. I've tried and rejected many cameras and systems in multiple formats. Through careful shopping, I've never resold one where I've lost much more than the shipping cost; as Richard S suggests, that's a fairly negligible rental cost to gain definitive knowledge.

I'm currently using this method to see if a new-to-me 645 system (Mamiya Pro) is better (for me) than my go-to (Bronica ETRSi).

smolk · Nov 1, 2015

I happily use the Rolleiflex 6008 integral - with three lenses and a 2x converter. Absolutely love this system and the results it produces, but 6x6 and its weight would probably be in the same ballpark as the Pentax 6x7.
For alternative SLRs, see Pentax 645 (with a digital future). Very nice to handhold. Less weight but not by much.

For less weight, I use TLRs (Rolleiflex 2.8C, Microflex) or folders (DeMariaLapierre Telka III - 6x9).
My favourite camera was a Plaubel 67 rangefinder, which is far from heavy, extremely compact, a beauty to behold, and extremely sharp with nice bokeh - but costly. The meter is prone to fail - factor that in the costs. But I'd prefer a handheld meter anyway.

Sirius Glass · Nov 1, 2015

mr rusty said:
I find using an optitech strap I can carry my Mamiya 645J around with barely any more difficulty than a 35mm. Little bit bulkier but the padded strap alleviates the extra weight. The 645J is the original Mamiya without the interchangeable back and is fairly compact but solid metal construction. I use mine with a prism finder which certainly adds weight but allows me to use it like a 35mm slr. Would be smaller/lighter with a WLF, but then I'd lose the inbuilt metering.

The Hasselblad with a PME handles like a large 35mm camera.

Sirius Glass · Nov 1, 2015

MattKing said:
Every time I read the thread title I think that it is a recommendation to carry two medium format cameras!

No, use a camera with two film backs.

Mike Bates · Nov 1, 2015

The Bronica GS-1 meets all of your requirements. I have one. It's considerably smaller than either of the Mamiya RZ/RB 6x7 cameras because it doesn't have a rotating back and no bellows. With the Speed Grip, it's quite hand-holdable and easy to carry.

Colin DeWolfe · Nov 1, 2015

I have a few medium format systems.

Currently, for those with prisms, I have the Bronica SQ-A (6x6), Bronica ETRsi (645) systems and a Pentax 67. The finders in Bronicas are just as bright as the Hasselblad acute matte. Not so much in the Pentax. Before I sold my Hassy I did a side-by-side with the Bronicas to convince myself I would be OK.

I find the screens with the slightly visible fresnel to be easier to focus than the acute matte, because areas not covered by the split prism just "snap" into focus. With the acute matte, which looks like a movie screen, I was always second guessing myself.

The Bronica systems also have AE prisms, turning them into 35mm on steroids. Pick your aperture, it picks a shutter speed. You can also do manual and spot metering.

destroya · Nov 2, 2015

i went through the same thing you did a few years ago and settled on the pentax 67II. one of the major decision points was (and I did in fact do it) was that i could get a 645N and use the same 67 lenses on the 645 as long as I bought the adapter. That made bag packing smaller as one set of lenses could be used on two cameras. so th 67 gets B&W film and the 645 gets slide film.

I agree with the above comment saying buy a system and try it. If its not for you you learned a few things about what you liked about it and what you didnt. YOu should get back most if not all your cash back on selling. like above, consider it a rental fee. Move on, try the next system and then the next. Not the most efficient way, but you will eventually find the one you like.

mweintraub · Nov 2, 2015

mr rusty said:
I find using an optitech strap I can carry my Mamiya 645J around with barely any more difficulty than a 35mm. Little bit bulkier but the padded strap alleviates the extra weight. The 645J is the original Mamiya without the interchangeable back and is fairly compact but solid metal construction. I use mine with a prism finder which certainly adds weight but allows me to use it like a 35mm slr. Would be smaller/lighter with a WLF, but then I'd lose the inbuilt metering.

I have an Op/Tech that I use on the RZ, Kiev 60, and Pentax 6x7. I recently replaced my bad P6x7 with a new one and the seller had a standard thin one on it and for the short time I was at the camera show, it dug into my skin. I love the Op/tech! You barely feel the camera is there.

Colin DeWolfe said:
I have a few medium format systems.

Currently, for those with prisms, I have the Bronica SQ-A (6x6), Bronica ETRsi (645) systems and a Pentax 67. The finders in Bronicas are just as bright as the Hasselblad acute matte. Not so much in the Pentax. Before I sold my Hassy I did a side-by-side with the Bronicas to convince myself I would be OK.

I find the screens with the slightly visible fresnel to be easier to focus than the acute matte, because areas not covered by the split prism just "snap" into focus. With the acute matte, which looks like a movie screen, I was always second guessing myself.

The Bronica systems also have AE prisms, turning them into 35mm on steroids. Pick your aperture, it picks a shutter speed. You can also do manual and spot metering.

The Bronica viewfinder/focus screen is amazing. Have you tried the Pentax with the faster f/2.4 lens? Also, do any of your Super Takumar have any yellowing? I ask because that can darken the screen a little. But either way, I don't find a little dim finder to be a big issue... unless it's Very B.A.D.

twoeyeandy · Nov 6, 2015

There's only one....

...and thats got to be the Bronica ETRSi. Great quality, very portable, reasonably tough, has so many accessories and as cheap as chips.
Go for the ETRSI as it has more functions than the earlier ETR/ETRS versions, they all have electric shutters so you have no benefit getting an earlier model. The AEii prism is great and relatively small and gives you the option of shooting with aperture priority...or was it shutter priority?... Get two bodies, two film backs, an AEii prism, three lenes (40mm, 75mm and 150mm) and you can photograph the world...twice.
Or, alternatively, you could get a Rolleiflex and discover the best camera ever created, just a thought.

The Right Medium Format Camera - Take Two

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