The results of one old experiment on the make of "tabletted" developer

bnxvs · Aug 8, 2020

1.5 years ago I got the idea to try made a developer in convenient tablets for a single use. I read a lot of patents and various articles on this topic and decided try to do it. As a basis, I took Pat Gainer's "base" (vitamin C and phenidone), added sulfite and alkali and some another ingredients. I made a max concentrated solution of all the components and evaporated it for some days. I rolled small balls (tablets) from the obtained substance and put them in a tray on the windowsill. And of course I completely forgot about it

And yesterday, quite by accident I drew attention to this tray and decided to check the result.

And, oh my God, it turned black in about 2 minutes ... Wow, it's worked!

pentaxuser · Aug 8, 2020

Well done. If I recall Tetenal used to produce RA4 chemicals in the form of tablets. I think Tetenal referred to them as pearls. However they have long since disappeared.

I think there has to be some major problems in making developer as tablets otherwise there would surely be tablet developers for sale. If users could buy tablets for film development this has possibly some big advantages such as indefinite life similar to unopened powder, easier transport and storage, less space needed in the darkroom.

pentaxuser

Ian Grant · Aug 8, 2020

Burroughs Wellcome the drug company once sold developer in tablet form under the "Tabloid" brand name. Ia have a bottle of Tabloid Amidol developer tablets. A 1934 advert shows then selling TAbloid Rytol and Tanol developers as well as Intensifiers, Reducers, Desensitisers. Toners, Stains, etc. Rytol was available before the outbreak of WWI.

The 1910 British Journal Photographic Almanac lists Burroughs Wellcome's telegtraph address as Tabloid, London. Another company Ozobrome Ltd also supplied their chemistry in Tabloid form (maybe made by Burroughs Wellcome), this was for a carbon process, converting a Bromide print into a c Carbon print. Tabloid was a registered trade name.

Ian

Tom Kershaw · Aug 8, 2020

Ian Grant said:
Burroughs Wellcome the drug company once sold developer in tablet form under the "Tabloid" brand name. Ia have a bottle of Tabloid Amidol developer tablets.

Do you know when 'tablet' developers went out of favour? I see Tetenal are now mentioning tablet as a potential future packaging.

pentaxuser · Aug 8, 2020

Ian, I wonder why it did go out of favour. It looks to have major advantages to me and might promote the use of film by younger newcomers. A dark cupboard or changing bag, a tank and a plastic measuring jug is about all you'd need. OK it leaves fixer as a problem. Was there ever a tablet fixer and could one be made easily or if not a small sachet of powder that fixes one or two films?

pentaxuser

Ian Grant · Aug 8, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
Do you know when 'tablet' developers went out of favour? I see Tetenal are now mentioning tablet as a potential future packaging.

The Second World War seems to be the end of Tabloid chemistry. Sir Herbert Wellcome died in 1936, it's his legacy that's behind todays Wellcome Trust. Born in the US Herbert Wellcome seems to have been a keen photographer himself and was President of the Wellcome Photographic Club which met in the Wellcome Club and Institute in Dartford, Kent.

The Wellcome Collection contains letters from Herbert Ponting who used their products. It's likely the photographic side was a personal project it was definitely no the core business of Burroughs Wellcome, so after his death and the need to manufacture drugs and first aid materials for the war effort. There was a Tabloid First Aid Outfit, and he supplied portable medical chests to the Scottish Antarctic Expeditions 1905 and 1910, as well as early attempts on Everest.

Ian

Ian Grant · Aug 8, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Ian, I wonder why it did go out of favour. It looks to have major advantages to me and might promote the use of film by younger newcomers. A dark cupboard or changing bag, a tank and a plastic measuring jug is about all you'd need. OK it leaves fixer as a problem. Was there ever a tablet fixer and could one be made easily or if not a small sachet of powder that fixes one or two films?

pentaxuser

Same answer as I gave Tom. I think the issue is you have to formulate a developer for Tablet form rather than try to use an existing developer, that would be more successful.

A slightly different approach was used for Ilford Hyfin and Kodak HDD both of which came with 5 sachets per box, each sachet mixing to 600ml

The Glycin has oxidised so it's useless, I have 3 boxes 600ml is enough for one 120 film or 2x 35mm in a Paterson or similar tank.

One major issue with developers is the transport cost of shipping liquids, so some kind of tablet form would be ideal for a company like Tetenal.

Ian

pentaxuser · Aug 8, 2020

Thanks,Ian . It looks like the problem in terms of anything new in the film industry is that you need a visionary or group of such people and preferably at least one person like Sir Herbert Wellcome whose future is not dependent on the outcome of the innovation being tried

Unfortunately the film industry today lives in a form of hand-to-mouth existence where each attempted change has to be carefully costed and has to be almost guaranteed to be an economic success

pentaxuser

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Aug 8, 2020

A tablet monobath developer would be really cool and can make life really simple.

AgX · Aug 8, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
Do you know when 'tablet' developers went out of favour? I see Tetenal are now mentioning tablet as a potential future packaging.

Up to their demise old Tetenal still offered tablets of b&w developer.
Plus proprietary cassettes for minilabs.

What has been mentioned here from/about new Tetenal on tablets was nonsense and I hinted at this then.

Tom Kershaw · Aug 8, 2020

AgX said:
What has been mentioned here from/about new Tetenal on tablets was nonsense and I hinted at this then.

Do you mean the idea of reintroducing a modern tablet product?

laser · Aug 8, 2020

There are a lot of alternatives for chemical packaging. One advantage of a tablet is that a water soluble oxygen barrier can be incorporated to increase the life in the dry form. Another is a multi-part solution can be in one super tablet with a suitable chemical barrier. One material could be formed around another (coaxial) so the parts could be dissolved in a specific order. Another variation is to have a super tablet that is part powder and part liquid. You could also have packets made from a floating material with a dissolving material holding it together. When stirring in hot water the packet breaks open empties and floats to the surface to be discarded. Another is a highly concentrated slurry so water doesn't have to be shipped from factory to user.

As it turns out a bottle or a packet made from a laminate works and is very inexpensive and trouble free. Packaging isn't a concern. One of the biggest barrier to traditional photography is environmental concerns i.e. shipping, handling, and effluent.

grain elevator · Aug 8, 2020

Isn't packaging in little bags a solution to the same problem? Ilford does it now. Probably easier to protect from oxidation that way. And as the whole point is this is a product for low volume users, the additional packaging isn't a huge concern.

AgX · Aug 8, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
Do you mean the idea of reintroducing a modern tablet product?

Not the idea of making a tablet product, but the idea of it making a it as effervescent product. (It even says so on their website...)
As I indicated by me in the past, this means a varying ph, spraying of toxic/allergenic substance or foaming. And I am not alone with this rejection in the photo-engineering world.

bnxvs · Aug 9, 2020

In fact, the problem of oxidation of developing substances is solved quite simply. In the USSR, tablets of the developer of b/w films were once produced. I have carefully read the relevant patents and technology descriptions. The main ingredient was regular sugar: a concentrated developer solution was prepared, to which a certain amount of sugar was added. Then the mixture was evaporated in a chemical dryer and the resulting powder was compressed into tablets.
p.s. By the way, I had no problems with dissolution my "tablets". I see no need to make an "effervescent aspirin". Except that it can be a little fun ...

Murray Kelly · Aug 9, 2020

C-41 would lend itself to this tablet idea. All films the same.
For one-shot using David Lyga's ground work with 1+9 the tablets would be ~1/30th of the usual ingredients (no HAS - one shot) dissolved in hot water and with a time/temp chart with perhaps 40-30-25 C the occasional user could pop the bubble pack and get on with it.
Still need bleach which has a long life and fixer which doesn't :-( Marketing and distribution is another issue.
Sounds good to me.
The ingredients would be pennies but punching packing and distribution would be something else.

The results of one old experiment on the make of "tabletted" developer

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