The Rebirth of a G-Claron!

Paddy · Aug 13, 2007

I've just received my (re)newed 270 G-Claron. It's a very rare bird indeed because it's now multi-coated! That isn't a typo. A few years ago I picked-up this lens, in barrel, for pennies because the outer surface coatings were quite scuffed. So, I sent it off to Arax, in Kiev for recoating. They did a fantastic job. All elements were separated, re-polished, and then multi-coated. I'll post some test shots asap. It's currently on an older Prontor self-cocking shutter that needs a new aperture scale. I'll also post a pic of the lens soon.

patrickjames · Aug 13, 2007

That thing is gonna be sharp! Could you post some pics of the lens? I was thinking about recoating one of mine.

Patrick

Paddy · Aug 13, 2007

I don't think the sharpness will change, at least I hope not (for the worse, that is) But I imagine it is likely going to be more contrasty, and able to better deal with potential flare issues.

JG Motamedi · Aug 13, 2007

I love Arax! Gevorg has saved quite a few of my lenses.

Peter De Smidt · Aug 13, 2007

How much does this type of thing cost?

Paddy · Aug 14, 2007

Peter De Smidt said:
How much does this type of thing cost?

Peter, you can check out their pricing at http://araxphoto.com/repairing/

I had hoped that my job would be cheaper. Originally, I asked for just the two exterior surfaces to be re-coated. In the end, they took everything apart, and each component of the lens sets received repolishing/recoating.

Here's the breakdown:
each lens has 6 surface x $15 = $90
2x90=180
Shipping, handling, insurance - $15
________________________
Total - $195

Actually fairly reasonable when you consider the work that was done. And again, this is now basically a lens in "as new" condition.

CRhymer · Aug 14, 2007

Paddy said:
Peter, you can check out their pricing at http://araxphoto.com/repairing/

I had hoped that my job would be cheaper. Originally, I asked for just the two exterior surfaces to be re-coated. In the end, they took everything apart, and each component of the lens sets received repolishing/recoating.

Here's the breakdown:
each lens has 6 surface x $15 = $90
2x90=180
Shipping, handling, insurance - $15
________________________
Total - $195

Actually fairly reasonable when you consider the work that was done. And again, this is now basically a lens in "as new" condition.

Hello Paddy,

Did you have to completely disassemble the lens? From their web site it seems they want the elements all separated. I have a triple convertible that would be a candidate, but I would rather not melt the balsam, etc., nor realign the optical/mechanical centres.

Cheers,
Clarence

Paddy · Aug 14, 2007

Clarence, even though they state that they want the elements separated, they took care of the disassembliy/reassembly themselves for no additional charge. When I sent the lens sets to Arax, I had no idea what would be required to get the job done, or whether they could even do the work. I think my G-Clarons have three cemented elements per set.

The work they performed is top notch.

ReallyBigCameras · Aug 14, 2007

Paddy said:
Clarence, even though they state that they want the elements separated, they took care of the disassembliy/reassembly themselves for no additional charge. When I sent the lens sets to Arax, I had no idea what would be required to get the job done, or whether they could even do the work. I think my G-Clarons have three cemented elements per set.

The work they performed is top notch.

This is great news. I have some lenses of simpler design (4 air spaced elements) that I'd like to send them to be multicoated. These are older, uncoated lenses. So, they won't have to polish off any old coatings. I've been reluctant to send them the lenses for fear I won't get the elements reassembled in the correct order/orientation. I'd much rather they handle the disassembly/reassembly (should be a piece of cake compared to your G Claron).

Kerry

sanking · Aug 14, 2007

kthalmann said:
This is great news. I have some lenses of simpler design (4 air spaced elements) that I'd like to send them to be multicoated. These are older, uncoated lenses. So, they won't have to polish off any old coatings. I've been reluctant to send them the lenses for fear I won't get the elements reassembled in the correct order/orientation. I'd much rather they handle the disassembly/reassembly (should be a piece of cake compared to your G Claron).

Kerry

I want to throw in a caveat. Over the years I have had two lenses that suffered from advanced separation disassembled and the re-cemented. This made the lenses usable, which they were not befroe, but after re-assembly the center resolution of both was about 25% less than it was before the operation.

My personal opinion is that the risks of this operation with a single coated lens outweigh the potential gain in utility. I would not hesitate for a minute with an uncoated lens, but for one that is already single coated I believe that purchase of a good compendium lens hood would be a better investment of money.

Just my two cents worth.

Sandy King

ReallyBigCameras · Aug 14, 2007

sanking said:
I want to throw in a caveat. Over the years I have had two lenses that suffered from advanced separation disassembled and the re-cemented. This made the lenses usable, which they were not befroe, but after re-assembly the center resolution of both was about 25% less than it was before the operation.

My personal opinion is that the risks of this operation with a single coated lens outweigh the potential gain in utility. I would not hesitate for a minute with an uncoated lens, but for one that is already single coated I believe that purchase of a good compendium lens hood would be a better investment of money.

Just my two cents worth.

Sandy King

Sandy,

Thanks for the input. The two lenses I have are Cooke Series VIIb wide angles. They are older, uncoated samples from the 1920s and early 1930s. They are totally air-spaced (no cemented elements, 4/4 construction). They offer good sharpness and great coverage, but due to the air spaced design and uncoated elements they are quite low in contrast and excessively prone to flare. I stopped holding my breathe that Cooke will re-introduce a modern, multicoated version of these classic lenses. So, I bought these older, uncoated samples with the specific thought of getting them retro-multicoated.

Mechanically, the elements are held in with easily removed threaded retainers. So, disassembly/reassembly should be a piece of cake.

Kerry

sanking · Aug 14, 2007

kthalmann said:
Sandy,

Thanks for the input. The two lenses I have are Cooke Series VIIb wide angles. They are older, uncoated samples from the 1920s and early 1930s. They are totally air-spaced (no cemented elements, 4/4 construction). They offer good sharpness and great coverage, but due to the air spaced design and uncoated elements they are quite low in contrast and excessively prone to flare. I stopped holding my breathe that Cooke will re-introduce a modern, multicoated version of these classic lenses. So, I bought these older, uncoated samples with the specific thought of getting them retro-multicoated.

Mechanically, the elements are held in with easily removed threaded retainers. So, disassembly/reassembly should be a piece of cake.

Kerry

Kerry,

This lens would be a great candidate for multi-coating, and very little risk involved since there is no re-centering needed. Many years go I had a number of lenses of this type re-coated, and the gain in performance was worth the cost. Multi-coating would be even better.

The more elements you have to disassemble and re-cement, the greater the potential for poor results from improper re-centering.

Course, if this company can do a really good job in re-centering, some of the old lenses of the past, like the four and five element Turner Reich convertibles, could be vastly improved, since many of them were not well-centered to begin with and this is the main reason for their generally poor performance.

Sandy King

CRhymer · Aug 14, 2007

sanking said:
Kerry,

This lens would be a great candidate for multi-coating, and very little risk involved since there is no re-centering needed. Many years go I had a number of lenses of this type re-coated, and the gain in performance was worth the cost. Multi-coating would be even better.

The more elements you have to disassemble and re-cement, the greater the potential for poor results from improper re-centering.

Course, if this company can do a really good job in re-centering, some of the old lenses of the past, like the four and five element Turner Reich convertibles, could be vastly improved, since many of them were not well-centered to begin with and this is the main reason for their generally poor performance.

Sandy King

Hello Sandy,

Good news (potentially).

I have two or three Turner Reich, IIRC 5 elements front and back that need work. I was unaware that they were not properly assembled initially, so I am willing to risk the worst of the lot. I am hopeful that a very nice lens indeed will be the result.

I am all ears should anyone have additional information. How exciting!

Cheers,
Clarence

JG Motamedi · Aug 15, 2007

Clarence, getting your TR redone will be very expensive, even with Arax's very reasonable prices. A complete set has 10 elements in two groups. At $30 per piece you are looking at more than $300 to repair your lens.

Captain_joe6 · Aug 15, 2007

While's he's at it he could have Steve Grimes remount the TR in a new copal shutter, engrave a new scale set of aperture scales, and make some lens caps. It would certainly be the most expensive, and probably the best Turner Reich on the planet.

This is no bash on Grimes, I completely support his work and (having some machining experience myself) know how much goes into every little thing. Once I'm done with school and out selling prints, I very much plan on picking up another 12-21-28 and having it coated and remounted, which I conservatively estimate at $1500.

Drool.

Paddy · Aug 15, 2007

sanking said:
My personal opinion is that the risks of this operation with a single coated lens outweigh the potential gain in utility.

Sandy, I appreciate your perspective on this. In my case, the outer surface coatings were so scuffed-up, and my purchase cost so low, that I figured it was worth the risk for a potentially substantial gain. My tests will show whether or not this is so.

Roger Hicks · Aug 15, 2007

One more point, from Balham Optical, is that multi coatings are normally matched specifically to the glasses used in each element, so generic multi-coating rarely offers any advantage over single coating (though it is unlikely to do any harm).

Harrigan · Aug 15, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
One more point, from Balham Optical, is that multi coatings are normally matched specifically to the glasses used in each element, so generic multi-coating rarely offers any advantage over single coating (though it is unlikely to do any harm).

Roger is right multicoatings are designed specifically for particular lenses and glasses. To work properly they need to be specific for each lens.

This is what Kodak told me when I asked their lens prototype group to coat a lens for me. They refused because every lens coating is designed specifically for a particular lens. They would not do it but then again these guys have very high standards. Too bad this group is now gone from EKC.

I would also mention that new lenses are normally tested for centering before being released for sale. Having re-cementing work done is quite risky in my opinion as any tiny mis-alignment can cause major optical problems.

CRhymer · Aug 15, 2007

JG Motamedi said:
Clarence, getting your TR redone will be very expensive, even with Arax's very reasonable prices. A complete set has 10 elements in two groups. At $30 per piece you are looking at more than $300 to repair your lens.

Perhaps I am jumping the gun here. The one lens I would risk first has fairly extensive separation of one of the cemented units. The back cell is pristine. I don't recall if the front and back cells have any air-spaces or are all cemented, but I doubt that one could separate one joint of a cemented group of elements without separating them all (with heat). I am less interested in coating (the lens is well before coating days) than getting rid of the separation (no fungus, scratches or cleaning marks). Perhaps, I should try a reglue job, but I am concerned about the precise reassembly (optically and mechanically). I am not particularly knowledgeable about this, as is obvious from my post.

Long shot - is it possible to inject (allow to soak in) a solvent that would re-dissolve the Canada Balsam and let it reset, or is separation due to many factors, including the chemical degradation (not fungus in this case it would seem) of the cement (for old lenses).

Any ideas?

Cheers,
Clarence

Dan Fromm · Aug 15, 2007

Clarence, there have been reports of separated Canada balsam glass-balsam-glass interfaces miraculously repairing themselves when left to sit in a warm dark place for several months. I have me doubts, such miracles never happen to my separated lenses but then they're all relatively modern and probably weren't glued together with Canada balsam.

Black Dog · Aug 15, 2007

You just can't keep a good G-Claron down!

JG Motamedi · Aug 15, 2007

Clarence,

Even if you could squirt some solvent in between the elements the chance of you correctly seating all five elements without the correct equipment is about zero. There are too many elements and too little gain to do the work. Also, I forgot, TR burnished their lenses closed, so you are going to have to find a machine shop to cut them loose or use a jewelers saw and risk destroying the barrel. Move on any buy yourself a different lens.

On the other hand, if you want a beautiful coated (but not by Arax) 8x10 TR pm me and I will sell you mine.

jason

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