The question asked a 1000 times: which camera?

jernejk said:

I am considering all proposed options and checking ebay. It seems either Bronica, Hasselblad or even SL66 would fit my needs. I have no distinct favorite, but as I'm going through listings, yes, Hasselblad seems to touch me stronger as the others. Hence, I'm leaning towards... but all options are still there.

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If I misinterpreted your post I apologize. It seemed to me you had already made up your mind.

There is nothing wrong with picking a camera like a Hasselblad based on aesthetics if it is really important to you. I don't often read people posting, "I got a Hasselblad and I regret it." So the chance of regret are small.

A lot of this is going to boil down to personal taste. I personally comment on what people post when I think it doesn't make objective sense. But if someone says I like the feel or look of a particular camera that is a personal choice. No one can really tell you your preference in that regard is wrong.

jernejk said:

I find much, much more listings for Hassleblad systems or parts compared to the other two - which mens Hasselblad is probably the most future proof investment (at least on EU market).

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Yes there are far more Hasselblads floating around out there on the used market than just about anything else in the space. There is no discussion about that. How much "future proofing" you need is a matter of debate. If you are not a pro then it is unlikely you will push your equipment to manufactures limits any time soon. Personally at these prices I figure I will just pick up another body for my system if and when I see a deal somewhere. But again that is a personal choice.

I love my Hasselblad...although, it is not exactly lightweight and I think you mentioned that as well... Maybe you were just referring to the 35mm format when you mentioned that. Also, I think aesthetics are not only about appearance. The way the Hasselblad operates, how it sounds, the Zeiss glass...all are things of beauty...and I mean that in an aesthetically pleasing technical manner.

To OP:

I've seen this kind of thread many times. I've started a few myself asking the same questions. What really comes down to is this.... unless you hold the camera in your hand and use it for a while, change your mind and try something else, and do it for few more times, you really won't know what the "best" camera is for you. I've tried Mamiya M645, then Rolleicord V, and I'm onto Mamiya RB-SD. I haven't found "the best" yet but I am liking my RB. Maybe Hasselblad is for you or even for me. But it's really a personal thing. You can't go by recommendations or specs.

It makes it a very expensive endeavor. Luckily, if you buy smartly, you can recoup a good portion of it back.

Good luck in your search.

SLR with 6x6 is basically a Rollei SL66 (or one of the more recent electronic Rollei's), the Bronica or Hasselblad. In regards to repair long term, the Hasselblad is certainly a good bet (that is where I put my money!). Hassy is probably the least "macro friendly". The 120mm macro is 1:4 and I believe that adding a 32mm tube gets you to around 1:2. I stack a couple of tubes on my 150mm and find it isn't quite enough for me. The image below is the closest focus with the 2 tubes +150mm and it is about 1:4. The Bronica does have a 1:1 macro, but I'm not sure how easy they are to find. The SL66 is insanely cool....bellows focussing, lenses can be reversed, focal plane shutter....and quite a bit less common. Three good choices with different strengths.

tkamiya said:

To OP:

I've seen this kind of thread many times. I've started a few myself asking the same questions. What really comes down to is this.... unless you hold the camera in your hand and use it for a while, change your mind and try something else, and do it for few more times, you really won't know what the "best" camera is for you. I've tried Mamiya M645, then Rolleicord V, and I'm onto Mamiya RB-SD. I haven't found "the best" yet but I am liking my RB. Maybe Hasselblad is for you or even for me. But it's really a personal thing. You can't go by recommendations or specs.

It makes it a very expensive endeavor. Luckily, if you buy smartly, you can recoup a good portion of it back.

Good luck in your search.

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All very good points...I've followed recommendations, only to be disappointed later. Not because the advice was bad, but because my expectations, or application were such that the recommended equipment did not work for me...even though it was ideal for the person giving the recommendation. You do really have to hold it and use it... The good part is that all the equipment you are considering is used, so the investment is not crippling, and the equipment essentially will hold its value.

Mark Fisher said:

SLR with 6x6 is basically a Rollei SL66 (or one of the more recent electronic Rollei's), the Bronica or Hasselblad. In regards to repair long term, the Hasselblad is certainly a good bet (that is where I put my money!). Hassy is probably the least "macro friendly". The 120mm macro is 1:4 and I believe that adding a 32mm tube gets you to around 1:2. I stack a couple of tubes on my 150mm and find it isn't quite enough for me. The image below is the closest focus with the 2 tubes +150mm and it is about 1:4. View attachment 64066 The Bronica does have a 1:1 macro, but I'm not sure how easy they are to find. The SL66 is insanely cool....bellows focussing, lenses can be reversed, focal plane shutter....and quite a bit less common. Three good choices with different strengths.

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Very valuable! Thank you!

Beautiful photo Mark! Is that a scan of a print?

To the OP: Rolleiflex SL66SE, especially for macro. Some say the metering in the later models is one more thing to fail, but I say so what? Even if it stops working, you still have a lovely, fully-functioning mechanical camera. In the meantime, enjoy the excellent average and spot metering right there in your waist-level finder (or prism, should you choose to invest in one). Zeiss glass. Nice, easy loading with the improved backs. Great accessories that are reasonably available on eBay thanks to low demand (tripod adapter is a must-have). Heavy, so plenty of mass to absorb slight movements when hand-held. And when that shutter goes off, and everything inside swings into action, you're left in no doubt something good has just happened!

Can't go wrong with a Hassy, either, of course. I have even had great success doing close-ups with my Yash 124G and close-up lenses.

artobest said:

To the OP: Rolleiflex SL66SE, especially for macro. Some say the metering in the later models is one more thing to fail, but I say so what? Even if it stops working, you still have a lovely, fully-functioning mechanical camera. In the meantime, enjoy the excellent average and spot metering right there in your waist-level finder (or prism, should you choose to invest in one). Zeiss glass. Nice, easy loading with the improved backs. Great accessories that are reasonably available on eBay thanks to low demand (tripod adapter is a must-have). Heavy, so plenty of mass to absorb slight movements when hand-held. And when that shutter goes off, and everything inside swings into action, you're left in no doubt something good has just happened!

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My man ! hesitate if I would add 'sound' as an asset when using this camera. But when TS talks about 'aesthetics', who am I not talking about this little aberration If you ever need attention from a crowd use this camera, it's only exceeded by a RZ67 with motordrive !

k.hendrik said:

My man ! hesitate if I would add 'sound' as an asset when using this camera. But when TS talks about 'aesthetics', who am I not talking about this little aberration If you ever need attention from a crowd use this camera, it's only exceeded by a RZ67 with motordrive !

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The SL66SE is hard to find, which means expensive (even more so the appropriate lenses) and prone to issues with electronics. SL66 are cheap, you will have to look out for one which is not worn out though, but this also applies to other formerly professional gear too. There is a chimney-finder with (spot-) meter which works with ambient light. If you need flash metering through the lens you will have indeed to go for a SE.
That said, due to the limited DOF -though it can be done- MF is not the best option for macro work IMHO.
I'd consider a TLR for landscape. It' amazing how seldom you need another lens as 80mm, if you shoot 6x6. Since I realized that I took most of my landscape pictures with the normal lens, the SL66 stays at home most of the time and I take a Rolleiflex TLR with me. The SL66 is quite large and heavy (as a System the SL66 is not heavier than the Hasselblad but the camera is).

If you intend to use the camera without a tripod, the SL66 in any incarnation is not the best choice. It is difficult to hold steady and to focus at the same time.

You say you like the square format, but most portrait and landscape photos are printed as rectangles, usually in standard dimensions (8x10, 11x14, 16x20, etc.). The reason for toting around a heavy MF camera with comparatively slow lenses to a 35mm camera is the negative size. Cropping a square negative to a rectangle necessarily throws away some of that glorious negative size. It's up to you do decide if you would feel limited printing square most of the time or if it bothers you to crop so much negative out of the picture.

On the up side of square negative cameras, you never need to worry about rotating the camera or the back to alternate between "portrait" framing and "landscape" framing in the viewfinder. That also makes waist-level finders practical, which some people really like.

Macro work calls for an SLR. There's no reasonable way to do it otherwise. You'll want a camera system that offers macro lenses (flat field, close focusing) and a set of extension tubes or an extension rail.

Durability and spare parts and be approached in a couple of ways. The simplest is to buy a very common camera system. That assures the best supply of spare or replacement parts for the longest time. Hasselblad and Mamiya RB systems will have parts of a long, long time. Exotic cameras, not so much. In general, mechanical cameras are more repairable than electronic, so keep that in mind also.

I'd say the MF system that comes closest to all of your requirements is the Mamiya RB67. It has gobs of negative area (crop square if you wish), rotating back, mechanical operation, huge assortment of lenses/accessories, and are very common. I've never owned one. I own Bronica equipment, which I like very much but doesn't meet some of your requirements as well as the Mamiya. RB prices are reasonable and the only downside for you might be they are heavy. Of course, that contributes to some of their durability too.

Service and parts is an important consideration. I just had my 500C/M fully serviced and overhauled by the factory service center in NJ.

jernejk said:

To tell you the truth, I'm leaning towards Hasselblad. The reason is probably as much emotional as it is rational.
First, I really like it - it really has a unique aesthetics. Second, there should be no problem finding parts for quite some time in the future. And third, the price is not much higher compared to other systems. I mean, you can get a Hasselblad - A Hasselblad for less than Canon 10-22 digital only lens that's not even L quality!?

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Ulrich Drolshagen said:

That said, due to the limited DOF -though it can be done- MF is not the best option for macro work IMHO.

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Interesting point. I really like composing on ground glass, plus sometimes macro work with 35mm viewfinder really does feel like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5ORhd6Sakw&list=PL94U2tauvOl49CHDbH3EyhqcMZ4F14Fa1

That's why I thought MF would be a good idea.

The SL66 is perfect for macro work, but as Ulrich said, you should make sure that it is in good working order before buying. Mind that these cameras are 30-40 years old now. A metered camera is not essential since the bellows has a exposure compensation scale for macro which works perfectly as long as one does not forget to compensate the exposure. The 120/5,6 lens has been designed particularly for close ups and its picture quality is amazing. It is the best lens in the whole line up IMO. A solid tripod and solid head are recommended for this camera! I have made good experience with the Gitzo G1570 head. It fits the camera perfectly and does also allow to use the tilt, which not all tripod heads will do. The price of these cameras is about the same as for a Hasselblad of similar age but the lenses are cheaper, plus they do not need any maintenance. It is not necessary to buy the newer HFT-lenses. From my personal experience the old single coated lenses are as good as it gets.

Here are my observations on which MF camera to buy and enjoy: I've owned (and still use) many of the cameras mentioned--Hasselblad, C330, Mamiya 645, and Mamiya RB. If you enjoy precision focus, especially for macro work, the rack and pinion focus of the RB and C330 make close focusing or even portrait shooting very easy and very accurate. I first became aware of this when using my new Hasselblad versus focusing with my RB and twin lens C330. The 'Blad and even my Mamiya 645's didn't seem to focus with the same level of accuracy as the two bellow focusing Mamiya's. Admittedly, except for the 645's, I'm using the wast level finder on these cameras. For me, my main reason for using MF (aside from picture quality) is the waist level ground glass viewing and focusing. This change in perspective vs eye-level prism makes (for me) all the difference in the world in terms of composition and subject placement. The OP might have a different take on this, but I'm just passing on my observations.

Asked many times, answered many times... "That one".

Anyhow, I had a C220 for many years, loved it. 65 and 105mm lens. Got a rb67. Took awhile to get use to it. wide angle lens and a centerpost grip. Wow. New way of seeing! Eventually stopped using the C220. Gave it to a friend. Hope it serves her well. Flushed out the lens set on the rb. Nothing you can't take with it. Have a couple extension tubes, both pop up finder as well as prism. It's essentially a LF camera with a little technology behind it.

Got the daughter a M645. Cool camera. Easy to shoot. Spent 6 months playing with it. Just couldn't give up the real estate of the rb67.

What do I shoot now? Deardorff 8x10.

Moral of the story... you will find your own place in the photo world. Just don't go jumping into the most expensive gear you find. You can't tell the diff between a 6x6 Hassey and a 6x7 Mamiya cropped the same. And one costs a hellava lot less.

tim in san jose

artobest said:

Beautiful photo Mark! Is that a scan of a print?

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Yes. It is a lith print done on Ilford MGWT.

agfarapid said:

This change in perspective vs eye-level prism makes (for me) all the difference in the world in terms of composition and subject placement. The OP might have a different take on this, but I'm just passing on my observations.

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I used to have a Lubitel and I loved waist level view finder. This is in fact one of the main things why I wish for a MF.