The problem is not fixed - weird EOS 50e behaviour. (Eye AF CAL can't be deleted)

[Yashica]

Ok Guys, first things first.
1) i own the original EOS 50e since 1996, i know this SLR very well.
2) I bought another one, in order to have one for B&W, the other for color Film.
3) I deleted all 3 Eye AF calibration points via CAL-1, CAL-2 & CAL-3 (all slots are blinking - hence empty)
4) When i turn on the EOS 50e, AF is very erratic, not working, only the right AF point blinking.
5) This body came yesterday via eBay, and drives me nuts.
6) I've read the manual a 20-times, it just doesn't work as it should - so this 50e is fck'ed up?
7) The eye icon via LCD is always shown, even i deleted all eye calibration points via menu (2-buttons press)
8) My #1 50e never showed this freaky behaviour.

Any hints? Paid close to 30 bucks - too much for trashing it out into the bin, otherwise looks mint.

Thanks

 

[MattKing]

Double check the batteries and their connections!

 

[koraks]

8) My #1 50e never showed this freaky behaviour.

I can't replicate it either. Just to check:

4) When i turn on the EOS 50e, AF is very erratic, not working, only the right AF point blinking.

Which AF point(s) do you have selected when this behavior happens?

7) The eye icon via LCD is always shown, even i deleted all eye calibration points via menu (2-buttons press)

The eye control icon showing in the LCD is independent from the availability of calibration settings. Even if you remove all calibration entries, as soon as you engage eye control, the icon will appear. The camera defaults to some factory setting for eye detection (which on my camera actually works quite well).

Have you tried the obvious step of calibrating one of the entries and then seeing if eye control works? And, if that fails, to just use the camera with manual AF point selection instead?

If you have trouble getting the eye control to work, verify that the viewfinder glass is clean and free of any damage.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

A heads-up about what sounds, from your description, to be fairly similar to that which I experienced in 1996.

The camera was serviced by Canon here in Australia (under warranty), with the display driver replaced (also with the accompanying EOS 5, mentioned below). Symptoms were flickering of the ECF array and difficulty explicitly selecting any one ECF point.

The age of the camera, and doubtful background coming from eBay, suggests the same or similar problem and that consideration should be given to service. It does not have to be serviced by Canon.

And it's worth it. The retro silver EOS 50e was a damned good and smarter, more agreeable camera than the blighted EOS 5, which gave me its fair share of inconveniencing troubles requiring repairs (display driver – chiefly affecting the external LCD DISPLAY, but also slowly cascading to the viewfinder display), the flimsy mode control dial, broken lens release button and a broken rear cover latch).

Hang in to the cameras you have. They are good examples of how Canon responded well to the annoying shortfalls of the EOS 5, particularly the introduction of bidirectional ECF.

 

[Yashica]

Double check the batteries and their connections!

Sorry, this is not a being use-ful comment, because 1) shooting since 1984 2) this is the #1 i do, and that issue is absolutely non-related to any kind, sort of battery issues. You can say that to DSLR/DSLM users, but not into this case with 35mm Film gear. Its a specific, technical issue. Read the specific problem, then read it again. Thanks.

 

[Yashica]

A heads-up about what sounds, from your description, to be fairly similar to that which I experienced in 1996.

The camera was serviced by Canon here in Australia (under warranty), with the display driver replaced (also with the accompanying EOS 5, mentioned below). Symptoms were flickering of the ECF array and difficulty explicitly selecting any one ECF point.

The age of the camera, and doubtful background coming from eBay, suggests the same or similar problem and that consideration should be given to service. It does not have to be serviced by Canon.

And it's worth it. The retro silver EOS 50e was a damned good and smarter, more agreeable camera than the blighted EOS 5, which gave me its fair share of inconveniencing troubles requiring repairs (display driver – chiefly affecting the external LCD DISPLAY, but also slowly cascading to the viewfinder display), the flimsy mode control dial, broken lens release button and a broken rear cover latch).

Hang in to the cameras you have. They are good examples of how Canon responded well to the annoying shortfalls of the EOS 5, particularly the introduction of bidirectional ECF.

I have both. The EOS 5 is all plasticky, the Elan IIe at least partially metal build quality. But what i dislike - the way expensive 2CR5 batteries,
with the EOS 5, ca. 35-38 rolls, with the Elan IIe - 8 to 10 rolls, so the newer Elan IIe/50e eats up a lot of battery power from these type of battery away. Yes, i think the camera is broken. Unfortunately, the guy sold it as working, not "faulty" or "defective" item. :-(

 

[koraks]

But what i dislike - the way expensive 2CR5 batteries,

It's possible to make an adapter that takes 2x CR123 with a 2CR5 form factor. I intend to do this as well, but I still have one or two 2CR5's on stock so it's not really a pressing issue.

with the Elan IIe - 8 to 10 rolls, so the newer Elan IIe/50e eats up a lot of battery power from these type of battery away.

Is it significantly more power hungry than the EOS30v? That would surprise me. Is it possible that your camera drains the battery when it's switched off? I know mine do, to some extent. I always take the batteries out when I store them for longer than a few days.

 

[loccdor]

Presumably the camera settings are stored in memory which requires power. Does it have an internal hidden battery to provide small amounts of power to the camera when the main battery is removed? What happens when this power is no longer present? I'm thinking of ways you can reset the camera.

Another idea: instead of deleting all the eye calibration, can you load them all with new calibration, just to see if you get different behavior and break the loop?

 

[koraks]

Presumably the camera settings are stored in memory which requires power.

No, this is not the case with these cameras. They store data in EEPROM.

Battery leaks to happen, however. Parts of these cameras always remain powered-on, e.g. for maintaining the LCD on top (indicating presence of film). This means that there's no hard-wired 'off' switch, and combined with potentially old and leaky capacitors, this can result in battery drain that far exceeds the performance these cameras might have had when new.

 

[Yashica]

I can't replicate it either. Just to check:


Which AF point(s) do you have selected when this behavior happens?
Nothing - i am not using this feature ever, i turn it off! But with this IIe, it simply doesn't work - god knows why...i have no AF point selected, never ever used that eye AF feature, but the right AF point is always (and only) blinking, and very erratic the others, into <5% of all cases.

The eye control icon showing in the LCD is independent from the availability of calibration settings. Even if you remove all calibration entries, as soon as you engage eye control, the icon will appear. The camera defaults to some factory setting for eye detection (which on my camera actually works quite well).

1) It's my 3rd IIe, i have this camera since 1996 (!). I know it (very) well. According to the manual, i deleted all specific eye calibration slots, means 1 to 3. But even then, that's the #1 issue - the eye icon via LCD still shows up, it doesn't delete when i press the usual buttons, according to the manual,at the same time.

Have you tried the obvious step of calibrating one of the entries and then seeing if eye control works? And, if that fails, to just use the camera with manual AF point selection instead?

If you have trouble getting the eye control to work, verify that the viewfinder glass is clean and free of any damage.

It's crystal clean, i always check this before. And even cleaned it with a microfiber cloth, which i use ordinary for my glasses.

 

[Yashica]

No, this is not the case with these cameras. They store data in EEPROM.

Battery leaks to happen, however. Parts of these cameras always remain powered-on, e.g. for maintaining the LCD on top (indicating presence of film). This means that there's no hard-wired 'off' switch, and combined with potentially old and leaky capacitors, this can result in battery drain that far exceeds the performance these cameras might have had when new.

True. That eye-specific data is stored inside the body. Otherwise it would being stupid - to make the eye calibration after a battery change always new again. Well, that's the sad think - you can Lock the camera with the "L" position of the dial, whereas most functions are turned off, but the top LCD is still sucking energy out of the battery, that's why i take out these expensive batteries, if i am not using the IIe for a week or so.

 

[loccdor]

QA engineers when troubleshooting or testing try to go down every decision pathway. Deleting all the eye control is one pathway. What I've found in testing various programs is sometimes when a delete doesn't work, an add will fix it. Can you load all the eye calibration settings with data? If that didn't work, I would try all the permutations. E.g. load slot 1, with 2 and 3 empty. Load slot 1 and 2, with 3 empty. All 8 (3 to the 2nd power) combinations of the same. This could be a solution if what you are facing is more of a software issue than a mechanical one.

If the right AF point is blinking one thing that might have happened is the camera was turned off when it was in the eye control calibration phase.

 

[koraks]

the top LCD is still sucking energy out of the battery

Note that the LCD as such draws less current than the leakage current of a typical battery. It's the leakage currents elsewhere in the system that might be a problem - in particular in any tantalum capacitors.

If the right AF point is blinking one thing that might have happened is the camera was turned off when it was in the eye control calibration phase.

Canon cameras are more robust than this, haha! If you power cycle it in eye control calibration mode, you'll just enter that mode from the start upon power-up. Note that the calibration mode is a position button that won't reset as a result of power-cycling the camera. If you turn off the camera in the midst of calibration mode, then turn calibration mode off before powering the camera up again, the camera powers up normally in photo mode.

Canon firmware in cameras is/was quite robust. I understand your suggestions, but they're not going to work. This sounds like a hardware defect.

 

[loccdor]

Canon firmware in cameras is/was quite robust.

Yes, I have found that to be the case, too. Only suggesting possible avenues of investigation.

 

[koraks]

Of course, you're right. OP should give your suggestions a go; they cost nothing but a few minutes and who knows he'll learn something from it.

 

[MattKing]

Sorry, this is not a being use-ful comment, because 1) shooting since 1984 2) this is the #1 i do, and that issue is absolutely non-related to any kind, sort of battery issues. You can say that to DSLR/DSLM users, but not into this case with 35mm Film gear. Its a specific, technical issue. Read the specific problem, then read it again. Thanks.

FWIW, I owned this model for a while, and had problems with erratic behaviors of all sorts when newly acquired batteries turned out to be defective.
And when I acquired the camera - used - the battery connections needed cleaning before the camera worked properly.
You probably already checked these issues before you posted your thread, but as you didn't include that information in your original post about a camera body that was both used and new to you, my suggestion was appropriate.

 

[Yashica]

FWIW, I owned this model for a while, and had problems with erratic behaviors of all sorts when newly acquired batteries turned out to be defective.
And when I acquired the camera - used - the battery connections needed cleaning before the camera worked properly.
You probably already checked these issues before you posted your thread, but as you didn't include that information in your original post about a camera body that was both used and new to you, my suggestion was appropriate.

Thanks, my Varta 2CR5 is brand new, and behaves like it should into my other two IIe/50e. The reason because i bought a 3rd one is - the 2nd copy does have some slight scratches, and this triggers my OCD...i simply can't stand it, i hate it. I see always the scratches and it bothers me. So the #3 copy is the same like #1, mint condition, which is fine. But it behaves erratic, to describe it with one word at best - and both other copies don't show the eye af icon, neither into the OVF, or on the LCD, and both behave like their should - but i can't get over the scratches (subtle, but visible) on copy #2...and i need two, because sometimes i can't decide if i shoot a specific scenery with b/w or color film...so i shoot the same scene twice, with both - and same lenses. Helps me focusing on the composition, instead going crazy with two different 35mm SLRs, and different setups, buttons, dials, etc.

 

[Yashica]

Note that the LCD as such draws less current than the leakage current of a typical battery. It's the leakage currents elsewhere in the system that might be a problem - in particular in any tantalum capacitors.

You're right. I've had that issue twice, and fixed it on my own - via XD7, and X700. Crazy, that they build that cheap tantalum caps back then into these bodies.

Canon cameras are more robust than this, haha! If you power cycle it in eye control calibration mode, you'll just enter that mode from the start upon power-up. Note that the calibration mode is a position button that won't reset as a result of power-cycling the camera. If you turn off the camera in the midst of calibration mode, then turn calibration mode off before powering the camera up again, the camera powers up normally in photo mode.

Canon firmware in cameras is/was quite robust. I understand your suggestions, but they're not going to work. This sounds like a hardware defect.

I know - you place the dial on CAL and do your calibration. But i never want to use that stuff, because it never worked for me greatly, this feature - it was always a gimmick for me, same as the EOS 5.

 

[Yashica]

FWIW, I owned this model for a while, and had problems with erratic behaviors of all sorts when newly acquired batteries turned out to be defective.
And when I acquired the camera - used - the battery connections needed cleaning before the camera worked properly.
You probably already checked these issues before you posted your thread, but as you didn't include that information in your original post about a camera body that was both used and new to you, my suggestion was appropriate.

Its very clean, the contacts. By closer inspection, looking exactly the same way, as my two other IIe of the same model. Thanks. I understand your point.

 

[MattKing]

No problem.
Does the same behavior occur with a different lens on it?
I know that it shouldn't matter, but as the focus system and the lenses interchange so much information ......

 

[koraks]

But i never want to use that stuff, because it never worked for me greatly, this feature - it was always a gimmick for me, same as the EOS 5.

I admit I only use center point AF on my cameras, regardless what kind of fancy focus arrangements they have.
I've several times tried the eye control AF on the camera's that have it (5, 30v, 50e), but I never stuck with it for a long time, even though it worked fairly well. My brain just isn't wired that way.

 

[Yashica]

Note that the LCD as such draws less current than the leakage current of a typical battery. It's the leakage currents elsewhere in the system that might be a problem - in particular in any tantalum capacitors.



Canon cameras are more robust than this, haha! If you power cycle it in eye control calibration mode, you'll just enter that mode from the start upon power-up. Note that the calibration mode is a position button that won't reset as a result of power-cycling the camera. If you turn off the camera in the midst of calibration mode, then turn calibration mode off before powering the camera up again, the camera powers up normally in photo mode.

Canon firmware in cameras is/was quite robust. I understand your suggestions, but they're not going to work. This sounds like a hardware defect.

I would check it on the weekend, when there's more time. But i fear it'sa hw malfunction. The guy who sold it, had no idea much about camera gear.

 

[Yashica]

I admit I only use center point AF on my cameras, regardless what kind of fancy focus arrangements they have.
I've several times tried the eye control AF on the camera's that have it (5, 30v, 50e), but I never stuck with it for a long time, even though it worked fairly well. My brain just isn't wired that way.

Exactly! Whileas it's confusing me, i am not using it.