The Polariodization of Kodak

cmacd123 · Dec 29, 2014

NJH said:
Westinghouse is a good example. I did some subcontracted work for part of the old Westinghouse company several years back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Rail_Systems
...now all subsumed into Siemens..

Only part ended up in Siemens. They gradually sold off all their businesses except for "Group W Westinghouse Broadcasting" when they took over or merged with CBS and or Viacom. (they changed the names of the pieces a few times)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Broadcasting (see the section called "merger with CBS" and "Epilog"

Actually I understand that Westinghouse Air Brake was almost always a separate company almost from the beginning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Air_Brake_Company

cmacd123 · Dec 29, 2014

And while we are COMPLETELY off topic, their is a book called "Us Condutors" that won the Scotiabank Giller Prize, it is a fictionalized account of the life of Mr. Theremin, the inventor of the Musical Theremin

Alan Klein · Dec 29, 2014

Truzi said:
Great movie. Notice the tubes they stood in for deceleration - later adopted as Star Trek's transporters (though the transporter is not unlike the disintegrator-reintegrator of The Fly).
I'm not sure if the theramin counts as a synthesizer.

I believe the instrument in Forbidden Planet's soundtrack was a theramin. A very good instrument:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin
I believe it won (or was at least nominated) for an award for "electronic" music at the time. I think that was the 1950s. It was a big deal back then, but before I was born. I thought it was funny watching late nite movies with Leslie Nielsen playing a serious role, as I was more familiar with him from Airplane and the like (not realizing that part of the humor was that he originally was a serious actor).

A theremin was not used for the soundtrack of Forbidden Planet, for which Louis and Bebe Barron built disposable oscillator circuits and a ring modulator to create the electronic tonalities used in the film.[37][38]

Click to expand...

See Film Music at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin

Alan Klein · Dec 30, 2014

Video and sound of the machine that created the outer space music for Forbidden Planet. https://video.search.yahoo.com/vide...v,m:sa&b=31&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

Truzi · Dec 30, 2014

Ah, cool. I didn't read that far down, thanx. (I always could tell the Star Trek theme was a voice, though.) Cool video too.

Ten301 · Dec 30, 2014

"There's so much noise out there, so many gadgets and things popping up right and left," Pace said. "The one thing people are looking for is something they can trust..."

Mr. Pace talks about "trust", yet Kodak and the licensee are blatantly lying to the uninformed consumer. These products have nothing to do with Kodak, it's history or expertise, for better or worse. It's merely a product they have paid to stick the Kodak name on. Trust is earned, not paid for.

NJH · Dec 30, 2014

Charles I agree and I think you are right in that I couldn't really see any connection between the railway systems companies with the Westinghouse name and consumer stuff in the past other than the name or brand but I didn't work directly for them but one of their many subcontractors.

On the value of a Brand does Kodak really have so much value as a pure label for other peoples products? Maybe in the US it does but I can't see anyone this side of the Atlantic buying some generic no name consumer goods with Kodak splashed on them.

Xmas · Dec 30, 2014

NJH said:
Charles I agree and I think you are right in that I couldn't really see any connection between the railway systems companies with the Westinghouse name and consumer stuff in the past other than the name or brand but I didn't work directly for them but one of their many subcontractors.

On the value of a Brand does Kodak really have so much value as a pure label for other peoples products? Maybe in the US it does but I can't see anyone this side of the Atlantic buying some generic no name consumer goods with Kodak splashed on them.

Of course not no one would pay more for a Zeiss lens made by Cosina...

removed account4 · Dec 30, 2014

if kodak puts their mark on all sorts of "stuff" in order to keep making ( or distributing )
the photographic related materials people need ... good for them i hope they can find a way to make it work ..

NJH · Dec 30, 2014

My Zeiss 50 Planar was serviced in Germany under warranty, returned to me in a fortnight and when I did the flashlight test on it didn't have a single speck of even the tiniest bit of dust inside. There is real substance behind Zeiss despite the outsourced manufacturing to suggest otherwise is rather silly Xmas. All Porsche boxsters until recently where built by Valmet in Finland, no one complained about the car not being a Porsche.

Unfortunately the article is not talking about production co-operation but pure brand licensing which is somewhat cynical.

Xmas · Dec 30, 2014

NJH said:
My Zeiss 50 Planar was serviced in Germany under warranty, returned to me in a fortnight and when I did the flashlight test on it didn't have a single speck of even the tiniest bit of dust inside. There is real substance behind Zeiss despite the outsourced manufacturing to suggest otherwise is rather silly Xmas. All Porsche boxsters until recently where built by Valmet in Finland, no one complained about the car not being a Porsche.

Unfortunately the article is not talking about production co-operation but pure brand licensing which is somewhat cynical.

My 40 mm CV /1.4 was available single coated and not detectably different, cept for angle and speed, for a lot cheaper new, it did not need a service either. The Planar had the Zeiss heliciod ring wobble its previous owner could not tolerate the hepatic, he 'gave' it to me.

Id say both were badge engineering. Zeiss and Kodak are past their sell buy date.

Valmet and Cosina are both good manufacturing companies.

Sal Santamaura · Dec 30, 2014

jnanian said:
if kodak puts their mark on all sorts of "stuff" in order to keep making ( or distributing )
the photographic related materials people need ... good for them i hope they can find a way to make it work ..

Licensing the "Kodak" brand will accomplish no such thing. When Hollywood stops subsidizing Bldg. 38, and not a minute later, Eastman Kodak will cease production of film. If Alaris then decides to coat its own or source product elsewhere (both of which I consider unlikely, but not impossible), what's offered will bear little resemblance to what is sold as Kodak film today.

removed account4 · Dec 30, 2014

hi sal

maybe you are right, it won't accomplish anything
but it will be $$ in their bank account to help with other
film related efforts ( maybe?) ..
if alaris decides to oursource the film production
and slap the kodak name on it, while it won't be the film
we use today, it still will be film ... it is already being done with chemistry, isn't it ?

are the chemicals champion and others(?) make with kodak's name on them that much different than
the chemicals that kodak made and sold themselves ?

im not trying to say things will be perfect, but they might not be as bad as
the doomsday profiteers suggest they will be ..

Steve Smith · Dec 30, 2014

Sal Santamaura said:
If Alaris then decides to coat its own or source product elsewhere (both of which I consider unlikely, but not impossible), what's offered will bear little resemblance to what is sold as Kodak film today.

It's hard to imagine why Alaris would have agreed to the rights to sell Kodak film if they were given no assurance of a continued supply.

Steve.

Xmas · Dec 30, 2014

Steve Smith said:
It's hard to imagine why Alaris would have agreed to the rights to sell Kodak film if they were given no assurance of a continued supply.

Steve.

It might have been their best choice in terms of $.
They also knew that EK had an court agreement to continue production to 2015. Any default they could have a further bite of cherry. Any continuation beyond then was more money in bank.

MattKing · Dec 30, 2014

Steve Smith said:
It's hard to imagine why Alaris would have agreed to the rights to sell Kodak film if they were given no assurance of a continued supply.

Steve.

They got something of value, even if the duration was uncertain.

And it came as part of a package, which included the RA4 paper, including the manufacturing facilities, which are valuable, and which they control.

They also got the photo chemical business and a distribution network for film and chemicals and RA4 paper.

They are based in the same country as Harman, and Harman does contract manufacturing of at least the black and white films. You may very well see "Manufactured in the UK" at some time in the future.

The tragedy, if it comes, will be the loss of Portra.

Xmas · Dec 30, 2014

jnanian said:
hi sal

maybe you are right, it won't accomplish anything
but it will be $$ in their bank account to help with other
film related efforts ( maybe?) ..
if alaris decides to oursource the film production
and slap the kodak name on it, while it won't be the film
we use today, it still will be film ... it is already being done with chemistry, isn't it ?

are the chemicals champion and others(?) make with kodak's name on them that much different than
the chemicals that kodak made and sold themselves ?

im not trying to say things will be perfect, but they might not be as bad as
the doomsday profiteers suggest they will be ..

EK Harrow London (now KA Harrow) used to coat and finish Kodak film but production was stopped about 2004.

They might like to kickstart production like Ferrani but may be too cautious of the market to bother.

Given Ron's revelations that Sony has contracted for five years of movie cam film Alaris are on a money spinner if they have a good contract agreement...

Steve Smith · Dec 30, 2014

MattKing said:
They are based in the same country as Harman, and Harman does contract manufacturing of at least the black and white films. You may very well see "Manufactured in the UK" at some time in the future.

The tragedy, if it comes, will be the loss of Portra.

Don't rule it out. Ilford have made colour film in the past.

Steve.

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 30, 2014

Steve Smith said:
It's hard to imagine why Alaris would have agreed to the rights to sell Kodak film if they were given no assurance of a continued supply.

KA is a digital-technology-first company. Film was an afterthought. As Matt says, part of the package deal. To be accepted or rejected as a whole, I'd guess. And they had current and future pensioners to worry about. So they took the whole package as likely the best deal they could get at the time and under the circumstances.

But I'd find it hard to believe that the analog film slice of that package was, in fact, the driving motivation.

And having insufficient foresight to have predicted the motion picture studio "bailout" (I read recently that to date only Disney Studios have actually paid any real portion of the promised money), I might also guess that KA is surprised that EK film is still even being manufactured at this point in time.

KA is neither stupid nor ignorant. Prior to closing the deal they would have already performed the required due diligence. They had to have already been aware before closing of the short-term future outlook for their source of Kodak-manufactured film.

Ken

MattKing · Dec 30, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
KA is a digital-technology-first company.

Ken:

I think you are under-estimating the importance to Kodak Alaris of RA-4 paper - unless you are including that in "digital-technology".

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 30, 2014

MattKing said:
I think you are under-estimating the importance to Kodak Alaris of RA-4 paper - unless you are including that in "digital-technology".

I am, yes.

RA-4 is a cross-over technology, equally at home in digital and film capture environments. KA's approach seems to be a desire to convince the digital capture side of the market to all begin to "output their photo hardcopy" using RA-4. Not sure how far that boat can sail, but we'll see.

Of course, if the film capture folks want to use RA-4 as well for a little while longer, no complaints. But I don't think these folks are driving KA's future. At least from KA's perspective.

Which is why the loss of the Portra line would likely not be a big deal for KA. Or worth their time and expense to find another manufacturer.

Ken

mrred · Dec 30, 2014

I read through all of this thread and find the comments of the posters both hilarious and hypocritical. Firstly you talk as if Kodak is your brand and is further from the truth. They can and will do what ever they want with it. If they did this kind of whoring before the crap hit the fan, they would likely be better off and their employees would probably still have their pensions. At least they are facing reality now....at least it seams.

RattyMouse · Dec 30, 2014

Steve Smith said:
It's hard to imagine why Alaris would have agreed to the rights to sell Kodak film if they were given no assurance of a continued supply.

Steve.

If you follow Alaris online at places like Linkedin, you can see that the focus of their business is almost 100% digital. So my guess is that they took the film business knowing that it would expire in the near term, intent to milk it for what they can, and then try to build a business that has nothing to do with film.

You see almost no resources whatsoever from Alaris going into selling or marketing film. None.

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 30, 2014

mrred said:
I read through all of this thread and find the comments of the posters both hilarious and hypocritical. Firstly you talk as if Kodak is your brand and is further from the truth. They can and will do what ever they want with it.

It's not that the brand belongs to us. It's that the product purchasing loyalty and name recognition good will engendered by that brand belongs to us.

They can do whatever they like with their brand. We can do similarly with our purchasing and good will as driven by our perception of the value of that brand.

Ken

MattKing · Dec 30, 2014

One important thing to note.

The "Kodak" labelled product originally linked to is being licensed by Eastman Kodak, not Kodak Alaris.

So it may be that Kodak Alaris is as unhappy about this apparent dilution of the brand as some of us here are.

The Polariodization of Kodak

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