The only Photographer in Kabul?

removed account4 · Dec 7, 2020

Kino said:
Speaking of commercial ferrotype cameras...

Here's a mind-blowing document I just found:
http://members.aon.at/mlasinge/pdf/streetcameras.pdf

thanks kino !

and the ferrotypes were paper prints that these cameras made ... (silver gelatin ferrotypes ). .. not wet collodion tintypes. ..

Donald Qualls · Dec 7, 2020

jnantz said:
thanks kino !

and the ferrotypes were paper prints that these cameras made ... (silver gelatin ferrotypes ). .. not wet collodion tintypes. ..

And there's your direct positive -- black paper with dry gelatin emulsion will make a "sort of" tintype with ordinary exposure and development. The Afghan cameras use regular paper now, because the black "tintype" paper is long gone.

I wonder what it would take to bring it back?

removed account4 · Dec 7, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
And there's your direct positive -- black paper with dry gelatin emulsion will make a "sort of" tintype with ordinary exposure and development. The Afghan cameras use regular paper now, because the black "tintype" paper is long gone.

I wonder what it would take to bring it back?

yup. that's it, direct positive
the afghan cameras make it ez, rephotographing the negative is pretty quick ..
from what I understand the new polaroid 55 company is making a monobath that can be used for direct positives. so it ..
and Jason Lane ( pictographica ) is coating black glass with his home made emulsion so slowly it IS making a comeback
much easier to buy the developer pre made, less finicky and less of a hassle dealing with ammonia..

Donald Qualls · Dec 8, 2020

I still disbelieve that a monobath can make a positive image without the black background (to view the silver image in reflection) -- and any conventional process can, with it. Given the deep blacks a silver gelatin print can produce, I think there's more to tintype style direct positives than just that, too -- something related to silver grain size, perhaps? With collodion, I've read about excess developer (amounts that run off the plate) "carrying the image away", implying there's dissolution of the halide and the potential for solution physical development. For gelatin, that points to glycin as a component of the developer (and considerable risk of dichroic fog).

Harman Direct Positive, I've read, depends on special treatment of the emulsion (not pre-exposure with light, as was the case with one or more direct positive film stocks).

halfaman · Dec 8, 2020

In Spain was a very typical type of photography in the first half of 20th century, the camera was called "minutera" and the professionals "minuteros". The names refer to "minutes" that was the scale of time to get a picture. They used photographic paper, first to get the image and they expose the negative again to another piece of paper to get the final positive. All in very few minutes.

Kino · Dec 8, 2020

It's all a fascinating subject. Too bad I cannot find reference to a book or comprehensive article about the cameras and processes used.

If anyone knows of such a document, I'd be grateful to hear about it...

removed account4 · Dec 8, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
I still disbelieve that a monobath can make a positive image without the black background (to view the silver image in reflection) -- and any conventional process can, with it. Given the deep blacks a silver gelatin print can produce, I think there's more to tintype style direct positives than just that, too -- something related to silver grain size, perhaps? With collodion, I've read about excess developer (amounts that run off the plate) "carrying the image away", implying there's dissolution of the halide and the potential for solution physical development. For gelatin, that points to glycin as a component of the developer (and considerable risk of dichroic fog).

Harman Direct Positive, I've read, depends on special treatment of the emulsion (not pre-exposure with light, as was the case with one or more direct positive film stocks).

Donald
you can disbelieve all you want ...
^^. its a link to Jason Lane's instagram feed to show a processed plate
the past is here now in the present.. and its not as loud and smelly as 1910 ( and you don't need to watch where you step ).
I've been making silver gelatin tintypes/ambrotypes with
the rockland kit for almost a decade ( off and on ) its fun. ... and it is great to see others doing this too...
no explosive ether fumes in the camera, no silver bath to worry about, no worry that your collodion will dry out, or you have to re-silver your silver bath, no worries .. just plates and developer..

there was a company IDK 5 years ago called galaxy who tried to make a go at direct positive photography too
they had a proprietary developer ( 2 parts ) an a super fast paper they were selling ( photo booth paper? ). from what I understand ( unlike the new55 company in Boston ) galaxy had people from the FSU working with them ( Slavic Photo? ) ... but ran into resistance when people ( here and other places ) got mad with them and quite vocal for calling their process direct positive (like Kodak called their developer to convert tax (100 ) into chromes.. a version of the Kodak direct positive kit is sold at PF in Montana and still called Direct Positive ) mainly because in our recent past people were used to Ilford's product being called direct positive paper that went into a conventional developer... its too bad there was so much resistance and harshness because it was a lot of fun, and could be used with any paper ( and probably film ) to be a single step positive conversion...

AgX · Dec 8, 2020

"Direct Positive" means all processes that end in a positive without applying a 2nd developing step.

These are:
-) in several ways pre-fogged materials that produce a positive in a way similar to solarisation
-) silver-salt-diffusion materials
-) materials with a black base that visually produce a positive out of a negative

Donald Qualls · Dec 8, 2020

@jnantz For me, the smell and the process are part of the attraction of wet plate, whether ferrotype, ambrotype, or negative. Not to mention the ability to make materials from basic chemicals -- nitric and sulfuric acids (to make the collodion and silver nitrate), industrial and garden chemicals for the collodion salts and developer, plain glass or black lacquered anything for the plates.

That said, a "direct positive" on black background is a whole different animal than a single-developer process that makes a negative material produce a positive image.

removed account4 · Dec 8, 2020

makes sense. .. Hunter Thompson resides in all of us they say ..
making collodion isn't really that hard, when I documented a army munitions plant
I saw how and where they did it, its pretty straightforward, boiling, displacing of water afterwards, dissolving in ether. ez pz
dangerous as hell, sure ... hope you have a steam jacket for your whole operation...
but silver nitrate you wouldn't get me to do that .. ever.
im sure you are familiar with the process ...
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/making-silver-nitrate.62777/
The GrandPooBah PE ( Ron Mowrey ) talked about dangers and the purification .. its not too expensive to purchase from suppliers
( like Artcraft and Bostick and Sullivan, and others ) .. and even they don't make it themselves anymore. Nasty, messy, dangerous.

Good luck with that !
John

Donald Qualls · Dec 8, 2020

Didn't say I wanted to make my own silver nitrate -- any more than I want to make my own lenses. It's just knowing that I can.

Niven's corollary to Clarke's Law: any technology you don't understand might as well be magic. The more I understand about how this stuff works, the less magic and the more science it becomes -- without losing any of the art.

removed account4 · Dec 8, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Didn't say I wanted to make my own silver nitrate -- any more than I want to make my own lenses. It's just knowing that I can.

Niven's corollary to Clarke's Law: any technology you don't understand might as well be magic. The more I understand about how this stuff works, the less magic and the more science it becomes -- without losing any of the art.

ahh, sorry for my misunderstanding ..
yea making silver nitrate is dangerous as heck but doable I guess if you have 9 lives and area careful

Donald Qualls · Dec 9, 2020

Concentrated nitric acid is dangerous, but it won't chase you down like a Terminator. Good lab procedure is all that's really needed. Fume hood or working outdoors with a breeze at your back, proper face shielding, apron, and sleeves/gloves. Further, you don't really need con nitric to get this done -- 30% is probably strong enough.

As I said, for most of this, it's enough to know I can if I must. But I've said for years it's not photography if I can't smell the chemicals -- and alcohol and ether smell nicer than sulfide or selenium toner.

removed account4 · Dec 9, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Concentrated nitric acid is dangerous, but it won't chase you down like a Terminator. Good lab procedure is all that's really needed. Fume hood or working outdoors with a breeze at your back, proper face shielding, apron, and sleeves/gloves. Further, you don't really need con nitric to get this done -- 30% is probably strong enough.

As I said, for most of this, it's enough to know I can if I must. But I've said for years it's not photography if I can't smell the chemicals -- and alcohol and ether smell nicer than sulfide or selenium toner.

good to know you know these things, usually the people who say they are going to make their own silver nitrate have no idea what they are getting themselves into,
and after they post that they plan on doing these things well it would be easier if they didn't have a handle/username other than their own name cause it would make searching the obituaries that much easier...
you're right about hooch and anesthesia . just make sure almonds aren't the last thing you smell when you do wet plate, you should be OK.

Donald Qualls · Dec 9, 2020

The beauty of modern chemistry -- thiosulfate is only very mildly toxic by ingestion, doesn't react to form a gaseous toxin (maybe a hint of sulfur dioxide, but while that smells bad, it takes a good bit to do you any harm), and won't change the appearance of the final plate vs. potassium cyanide as a fixer. Leave the cyanide for the butterfly collectors.

Snowfire · Jun 25, 2021

It has been said that the requirement for color photography spelled the death knell for these traditional cameras. It occurred to me that with Cinestill's two-bath C-41 process, doing color with one of these cameras might now actually be possible. I am not saying that it would be a practical alternative to digital, though.

Donald Qualls · Jun 28, 2021

Paper negatives and rephotographing to get a positive probably wouldn't produce color-accurate prints, though, while RA-4 reversal isn't controllable enough to produce an acceptable (for the customer) end product.

Cibachrome/Ilfochrome likely could have been done this way when it was available, and RA-4 reversal surely can but the results aren't dependable...

removed account4 · Aug 15, 2021

not Kabul but ...
speaking of agfhan cameras ..
https://tinyurl.com/t359pn56

Down Under · Aug 15, 2021

I feel for this photographer. Given what is happening today in Kabul, his profession, even his life, may be in grave danger.

I was in Afghanistan some years ago for a very brief trip. My experiences of the country, the culture, particularly the people, where such that I have a great admiration for what they were able to achieve during the all-too-brief period of freedom, 20 years for democracy, education, civil liberties to flourish. All to be wiped out in less than a week. So sad.

Kino · Aug 15, 2021

You can bet that camera has been very carefully hidden or burned by now...

Bronson Dugnutt · Aug 15, 2021

ozmoose said:
I feel for this photographer. Given what is happening today in Kabul, his profession, even his life, may be in grave danger.

I imagine it's like giving every poster here a Toyota, a Kalashnikov, and a Leica. Maybe the Taliban will post some sweet a7iii photos of their martial genocide.

The only Photographer in Kabul?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency