The never-ending bellows adhesive question

[nick mulder]

heh,

so I've been using spray adhesive lately, seems to work especially well on the leather interior (suede) to plastic strip connection, especially if the plastic has a bit of tooth to it (quick belt of coarse sand paper)... It also works wonders on the interior material (satin in my case) to leather connection, which is in between the strips and the triangle strip 'voids' around the corners (which allow more compact folding) - for whatever reason it is not so hot on satin to strip stickiness...

I tried on a book binders advice good ol' PVA which soaked very well into the leather but a day later I could pull off the plastic strip about a smidge easier than I could the spray adhesive (3M or Ados brand). It left a nice smooth PVA surface on the suede.

Now I understand that such direct tensile pull-apart forces are never placed on the bellows, so maybe its a silly test - the real forces are of the shear variety when you invert the bellows if you made it inside out, but then here's the biggy that concerns me the most:

TIME

Forgetting my process for now - I'm keen to learn yours

1. Which glues will stand the test of time?
   
2. Can glues fight each other chemically ? (I noticed black paint for instance greatly reduced the efficacy or the spray adhesive)
   
3. It's often hard to apply pressure over the large areas effectively, especially if you are not making it flat (with a form or without) - how do you account for this ? Are any glues better at drying/curing without pressure?
   
4. what glues do you use ? (chemical or generic type if possible please, we don't all live in the same place, so branding may not be the same)

 

[NormanV]

I use spray on glue for laminating the layers together and PVA for the joint. I have little faith in the spray glue over time but believe that once the bellows is folded it will probably stay together long enough. If it lasts 5 years I would consider that sufficient. It is not that much trouble to make a new bellows. The cost of materials for me is about £10 and I put the time invested into my fun folder.

 

[nick mulder]

yes - I'd agree until I started making leather bellows ...

ULF size for instance = higher construction costs all round and the requirement (for me at least) to build a formwork to work on - two cans of spray adhesive would chew away that £10 in one hit - whereas PVA seems to run on tap, just the pressure issue - need some loooooooong clamps and a kind of double outer formwork - hmmm, maybe kind of like a morse taper - I wonder ...

 

[NormanV]

Nick, yes the spray glue can work out expensive, you could try a contact adhesive but that is really tricky with large sheets of floppy fabric. The largest bellows that I have built was for a 12" x 10" camera and if I remember correctly I used watered down PVA (to slow the setting time) and just laid a sheet of plywood on top with any heavy objects that I could lay my hands on. It worked out fine but I dont think that it would have lasted long as I had used plastic backed paper for the outer layer. But it worked!

 

[John Koehrer]

Weather strip cement from the local car part emporium.

 

[Ian Grant]

The UK bellows manufacturers use Evostick, not sure if that's a brand available in AUS/US, but it's what the OEM used for my De Vere monorail's bellows.and years later for my bag bellows.

I've also used it to glue shutter curtain to the rollers in Thornton Pickard shutters and it's an excellent strong bond.

Ian

 

[nick mulder]

Evostik, interesting that a proper manufacturer uses it - but which variety ?

http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/brand/EVO-STIK


Weather strip cement - there are lots of brands but 3M I'd expect to be a good example

(?)

any reasons you prefer/chose it ?

 

[Ian Grant]

The original Evostick is now called Impact adhesive, I use the small tubes, it's been around since at least the 1940's.

I guess one reason I choose it is it's always been the leading glue of it's type in the UK so I'm very familiar with it as. When I stripped off the bellows & cleaned the metal frames of my De Vere Monorail on Wednesday that was the glue residue left.

Some of the other adhesives are quite similar just fancy packaging, colouring, maybe a different solvent balance to allow repositioning etc & higher prices, but the plain version is the best alround.

Ian

 

[nick mulder]

hmmm,

particularly of interest:

"No need for clamping or special support while the adhesive sets"

... and a "500ml spray can" option - so it's quite liquid ? or this would be a special aerosol version ?

 

[Ian Grant]

Special aerosol version, but I wouldn't like to spray it near bellows etc, it would be similar to the 3M permanent spray mount.

As it's an impact adhesive you can put glue on both surfaces, let it almost dry then just press together and it's permanent.

Ian

 

[nick mulder]

So I'm thinking it'd likely be ok to spray onto the material using the spray version (even application), but apply the normal version to the strips (get a nice amount applied right into the tooth of the plastic).

I'm guessing we have a version of the same stuff down this way (Ados, UHU - who knows), but I'm thinking I can get some sent down to try... If you say actual bellows manufacturers use it then it's gotta be worth a crack

 

[Ian Grant]

I'd missed the point that you have 2 uses, gluing the material layers together then attaching the bellows. There should be similar glues from other manufacturers, there's nothing on the UHU sites though.

For material/card or material I'm using a washable PVA craft adhesive, and I have samples sat drying in the unusual British sunshine (It's sunnier & 6°C hotter here 27°C than at my home in Turkey where the wife's got rain). I've used a similar PVA glue before for bellows repair with no problems but as I'm making a few sets of bellows over the summer including a large set for my De Vere I've decided to test the adhesives properly first.

Ian

 

[John Koehrer]

I've only used the weatherstrip cement to attach bellows to a frame or camera. I don't think it's suitable for joining thin materials for the layering of a bellows.

Impact cement, that's an interesting term. Apply to two surfaces, allow to tack & join.
Over here it's contact cement, a much gentler term.

 

[Ian Grant]

But then Montgomery is a much gentler place here

Ian

 

[nick mulder]

as I'm making a few sets of bellows over the summer including a large set for my De Vere I've decided to test the adhesives properly first.

Ian

exactly what I'm doing also

 

[nick mulder]

Seems the local contact adhesive is Ados F2 which comes in both spray version and a tube/tub version also - the spray version is what I've been using already - I'll try the liquid/goo version on the strips and the spray for the leather/material side soon and see if it sticks better than just spray/spray...

contact adhesive at wikipedia:

Contact adhesives are used in strong bonds with high sheer-resistance like laminates, such as bonding Formica to a wooden counter, and in footwear, as in attaching outsoles to uppers.
Natural rubber and polychloroprene (Neoprene) are commonly used contact adhesives. Both of these elastomers undergo strain crystallization.
Contact adhesives must be applied to both surfaces and allowed some time to dry before the two surfaces are pushed together. Some contact adhesives require as long as 24 hours to dry before the surfaces are to be held together. Once the surfaces are pushed together, the bond forms very quickly. It is usually not necessary to apply pressure for a long time, so there is less need for clamps.

 

[John Hermanson]

Use brown rubber cement like Pliobond (formerly made by Goodyear) or Hobsco's "Goo". John

 

[Ian Grant]

When it came to the crunch I used some Evostick I already had for my Quarter plate camera's bellows, sold as an Impact, and contact adhesive (on the label)

It worked perfectly

Ian