The myth of smoothness of leicas

Radost · Jun 26, 2024

First of all I have to clarify, M3 viewfinder is next to none. Quality wise nothing even gets close. I would not change it for anything
But,
Literally all my cameras have smoother wind than my 2 m3 and 1 m2.
I feel a lot of the myth of how smooth leica wind is is fan boy talk.
When I use my MInolta CLE the wind is million times smoother.

Steven Lee · Jun 26, 2024

I never found any evidence of "smoothness of wind" even existing. The tactile feel of film advance is 100% determined by the film brand + cassette combination. I also found temperature and humidity affecting that as well. I recently bought some new-old-stock Ukrainian cassettes on eBay and they're tight! Cameras play little role, but perhaps I just never owned a shitty camera? I am referring to Leica M6, M7, Nikon F3 and FM3a. I also had a Soviet FED in the 90s which was just as "smooth" as others if I remember correctly.

Maybe people are just playing with the advance lever without any film loaded?

beemermark · Jun 26, 2024

Your Leica needs a CLA if the wind isn’t silky smooth. I can’t tell there’s film in the camera unless I watch the rewind knob on my M7 & M4. Both done by DAG a few years ago.

Don_ih · Jun 26, 2024

I agree with @beemermark. My M3 film advance is virtually unnoticeable. And a Leica III of any variety with a Leica cassette is the same - assuming it was assembled correctly when last serviced.

My M4-2 .... not quite as nice as an M3.

Hassasin · Jun 26, 2024

Leica is the only brand where precision "myths" are actually true, even if this does not apply to every model they've ever made.

But when it comes to anything put together with tight tolerances, a requirement to be considered ... precise / smooth etc., it does need certain level of care to remain so.

Not same as saying it is the best there is as that description is too subjective.

Hasselblad, often mentioned in same mythical sentences with Leica, outside of the SWC, is noticeably not in same league.

RAY WILSON · Jun 26, 2024

My first camera was an OM1. I have a M3, too. The M3 advance is a bazillion times smoother than that OM1 pepper grinder. All is forgotten once the film is developed.

Marcelo Paniagua · Jun 26, 2024

The winding of my Leica M6 is quite smoother than my other cameras. Is it worth sending for a CLA for this? Not sure, but like stated before, precisión on this cameras is not a myth.

snusmumriken · Jun 27, 2024

Besides the gears, cassette and film, the pressure plate must be relevant. If it’s effective in keeping the film flat and tight to the film gate, wind-on is going to feel harder.

Radost · Jun 27, 2024

I have 3 minolta CLE and 2 leica CL as well. their wind is smoother than my 2 m3 and 1 m2. I had an M4 “that I hated the viewfinder similar to m2 and any other finder” and the wind was similar smoothness.
I am talking about the force resistance it takes. All my Leica R are super smooth “made by minolta“

Radost · Jun 27, 2024

My 2m3 DS are smooth on the first but resists on the second.

loccdor · Jun 27, 2024

I've never had a problem with the smoothness of the wind in any camera, as long as it's not ripping or scratching the film we're all good.

My Pentacon Sixes have too much play in the winding system, leading to overlapping frames, but that's a different thing.

Hassasin · Jun 27, 2024

Radost said:
I have 3 minolta CLE and 2 leica CL as well. their wind is smoother than my 2 m3 and 1 m2. I had an M4 “that I hated the viewfinder similar to m2 and any other finder” and the wind was similar smoothness.
I am talking about the force resistance it takes. All my Leica R are super smooth “made by minolta“

Leica R's where never made by Minolta, only R3 had many internals same

Radost · Jun 27, 2024

Hassasin said:
Leica R's where never made by Minolta, only R3 had many internals same

Ok designed. DNA from Minolta

guangong · Jun 27, 2024

If film advance is not smooth, it’s time to send camera for CLA. Camera innards are not hermetic sealed allowing dirt to influence winding. Condition of lubricants also is a factor. My Leicas, from 87 year old Leica IIIa, IIIc, IIIf, M3, M4 (bought new), and M5 (also bought new) are all smooth and dependable. However, cameras do require some minimum maintenance. I can’t speak for M6 and later models where cost cutting could influence operation.
Just how many other 80+ years old camera brands are still smooth and dependable?
My Leitz Leicaflex cameras have not aged well, nor have my R cameras made by Leica. However, my Nikon F is still a smooth mechanical wonder.

Dali · Jun 27, 2024

Radost said:
When I use my MInolta CLE the wind is million times smoother.

Good for you but are your pictures taken from your Minolta any better?

BrianShaw · Jun 27, 2024

Dali said:
Good for you but are your pictures taken from your Minolta any better?

I was wondering the same about those smooth Leicas, but thought it might be rude to ask.

guangong · Jun 27, 2024

Pictures may not be better, but the feel of superior equipment provides a satisfaction in itself. I find this to be true in painting and marble sculpture, as well as photography. My best example of the possibilities of excellence with lesser equipment is Arnold Genthe’s famous pics of SF earthquake taken with Kodak box camera, so results depend more on who is behind camera rather than the camera itself. I would not classify a Minolta as an inferior camera mark.

BrianShaw · Jun 27, 2024

guangong said:
Pictures may not be better, but the feel of superior equipment provides a satisfaction in itself. ...

Perhaps one takes photography just a bit more seriously with superior equipment and that positively impacts composition, etc..

Paul Howell · Jun 27, 2024

I had a III G compared to my Canon 7s the IIIG was much smoother, when in the Air Force we had both M3 and 2, although heavy used a gang of 18 to 22 years old who did care about taking of them, with yearly service still were smooth.

Radost · Jun 27, 2024

Dali said:
Good for you but are your pictures taken from your Minolta any better?

the 28mm and the 40mm yes, Yes pictures are better. For 50mm nothing beats the m3. It is actually very disappointing when I look through the m2 or any other Leica.

Radost · Jun 27, 2024

guangong said:
If film advance is not smooth, it’s time to send camera for CLA. Camera innards are not hermetic sealed allowing dirt to influence winding. Condition of lubricants also is a factor. My Leicas, from 87 year old Leica IIIa, IIIc, IIIf, M3, M4 (bought new), and M5 (also bought new) are all smooth and dependable. However, cameras do require some minimum maintenance. I can’t speak for M6 and later models where cost cutting could influence operation.
Just how many other 80+ years old camera brands are still smooth and dependable?
My Leitz Leicaflex cameras have not aged well, nor have my R cameras made by Leica. However, my Nikon F is still a smooth mechanical wonder.

My F3 is mechanical wonder. Just too big.

guangong · Jun 27, 2024

Radost said:
My F3 is mechanical wonder. Just too big.

With simple prism, F can be pocketable.

GregY · Jun 27, 2024

guangong said:
With simple prism, F can be pocketable.

You have bigger pockets than most.... Even a Leica M isn't a pocket camera.

RezaLoghme · Jun 27, 2024

"There are no bad cameras, only bad photographers", as the saying goes.

Paul Howell · Jun 27, 2024

Depending on size of prints perhaps an Olympus Pen FV Olympus had Eugene Smith do ads with Smith claiming that the Pen was as small as a Leica IIIF. I have a F somewhere in storage, lens is very good, with Plus X 5X7 was easy a 8X10, just passable, might dig it out and see how good Tmax 100 can be.

The myth of smoothness of leicas

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