The Modern Camera and the Dilution of Effort

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
177,062
Messages
2,428,871
Members
94,121
Latest member
Agreenier
Recent bookmarks
0

blansky

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
5,952
Location
Wine country, N. Cal.
Shooter
Medium Format
Claire Senft said:
Well we have both found our own best choice. Even though the choices are different I somehow feel this is a memorial day..or is it a Memorial Day?

Mr McBlane appreciated is your taking the time to amuse an old man. Thank you Michael.

The pleasure was all mine.

I would add that "our best choices" do change. I shot 35mm when I started out, then moved to 2 1/4 (hasselblad). Since 2 1/4 is such a great compromise, I really haven't ever left it and my F4 sits in a camera bag unused and I gave away a N8008. I finally was using the F4 for vacation stuff but that has been replaced by Mamiya 7II. (damn I love bigger negs)

I have 4x5 and dabble in that, Linhof Bi kardan and a Littman. But I photograph a lot of kids and I can't seem to make it work, or can't get out of the comfort zone of 2 1/4.

I now have a digital Nikon d200 and am playing with that. So our tools do change as do we.



Michael
 

Claire Senft

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
3,239
Location
Milwaukee, W
Shooter
35mm
Well I have a Mamiya RZ67 with 50 4.5W, 75mm 3.5L, 140 Macro and 210 Apo. They sit on the shelf gathering dust. To each their own.
 

amam

Member
Joined
May 11, 2022
Messages
23
Location
tornado
Shooter
Analog
WE HAVE SOMETHING TO GAIN by taking our time.

I don't believe we do. While I was entertained by the essay written and understand where it comes from, I think that someone with any type of camera can easily compose and take time with the making of a photograph. A big glass negative and albumen prints do not make automatically a great photograph. If someone without a photographer's eye did the same organ grinder dance as described earlier in the essay the photographs produced would have been exactly the same. If the Mr Jackson used a brownie, exactly the same, iPhone exactly the same. While I understand the heart of the matter is it really that important? in 100 or even 12 years my deliciously boring machine gunned exposures will look just as interesting to cousin George who has a 20x30 blow up on his wall as the same frame made with my 14x17 wet plate to sensitized paper prints. Time heals all wounds and makes things that people who believe that just because it was made big, or through a harder means its better not as better. There are many boring, uninteresting, poorly composed images that took 3 hours to compose and 1/2 hour to make.
 

Pieter12

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
3,307
Location
Magrathean's computer
Shooter
Super8
To a certain extent, experience counts. I can make a photo in a matter of minutes that might take a beginner much longer, because I might be able to spot an interesting angle sooner, can judge the light and composition quicker and have taken and seen thousands upon thousands of photographs before, sort of an unconscious database for comparison. Sometimes taking too much time means the shot is gone, perhaps forever. Sometimes you have to wait for everything to fall in place. But you need experience to know where to be and ready when that happens. Also, being familiar with how film or even a digital sensor records a scene, and being comfortable and at ease with the camera and its controls takes some time under the belt.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
37,795
Location
Delta, BC, Canada
Shooter
Multi Format
Twenty years this thread has been lying dormant.
It is a bit fascinating though that the "dilution of time" refers to quickly firing off an inexpensive (!!!!) roll of slide film.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
37,795
Location
Delta, BC, Canada
Shooter
Multi Format
Who dredges up this stuff? You've got to be searching to find it.

In this case, quite reasonably, the answer is someone new to the site who is wandering through what they might find here.
In general, I think that is a good thing, provided people pay better attention to the age of some of the threads.
 

ic-racer

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
12,042
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
I honestly did not know APUG existed in 2002. I joined in 2007 as soon as I discovered it on the internet. I would have had more to share in the 2000-2002 time period because that is when I built my current darkroom and acquired most of the equipment that I still use now.
 

momus

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
4,292
Location
Lower Earth
Shooter
Medium Format
Feelings come from thoughts. The eye/ears, etc sends the signals to the brain, the brain sends out hormones to the body based on what thoughts are triggered, and we get a feeling. So a feeling is just the end result of a thought.

I can tell at a glance if a photo is "good" or "bad", but as someone that started as a painter and still works in that realm, I also know that creativity can be stopped dead in it's tracks by criticism.

If someone is accomplished I tell them the truth. We're going to be solely discussing technique. But for the newbie who is not sure, keep it positive! This is very important. There's always something that can seen as positive about almost anything.
 

awty

Subscriber
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
2,566
Location
Australia
Shooter
Multi Format
I dont think the process dictates the level of planning and composing only difference is the volume. The percentage of time to a good prints is about the same for me no matter what process I use. Only difference is Im slightly less discerning when it comes to labor intensive processes, mostly because I get a greater sense of achievement.
 

Helge

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,471
Location
Denmark
Shooter
Medium Format
Who dredges up this stuff? You've got to be searching to find it.

Yeah who does searches‽ Curiosity is for dorks. X-/

Searches is the main reason for forums to exist.
We are building a vast liberary of knowledge and thought vectors, that no one single person would ever think of or could write down.
That is the strength of forums. And the catastrophic ambutation of groups on FB and Reddit.

And being able to pick up a conversation after years or decades is completely unique to forums in human history.

That can not be shamed out or questioned.
And why would you, really?

Thoughts doesn’t have an expiry date.
On the contrary, they often become more valuable as time goes by, and in ways you wouldn’t imagine.
 

Helge

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,471
Location
Denmark
Shooter
Medium Format
I don't believe we do. While I was entertained by the essay written and understand where it comes from, I think that someone with any type of camera can easily compose and take time with the making of a photograph. A big glass negative and albumen prints do not make automatically a great photograph. If someone without a photographer's eye did the same organ grinder dance as described earlier in the essay the photographs produced would have been exactly the same. If the Mr Jackson used a brownie, exactly the same, iPhone exactly the same. While I understand the heart of the matter is it really that important? in 100 or even 12 years my deliciously boring machine gunned exposures will look just as interesting to cousin George who has a 20x30 blow up on his wall as the same frame made with my 14x17 wet plate to sensitized paper prints. Time heals all wounds and makes things that people who believe that just because it was made big, or through a harder means its better not as better. There are many boring, uninteresting, poorly composed images that took 3 hours to compose and 1/2 hour to make.
They could, but they won’t be.
The medium is the message, humans and their tools coevolve, you write better with a typewriter and all that.
That machine/medium you use and it’s limitations, strength and history has a huge impact on your cognitive outset and process.
And in ways that you are not at all conscious of often.
 

amam

Member
Joined
May 11, 2022
Messages
23
Location
tornado
Shooter
Analog

yes. sorry for wrong word.
Who dredges up this stuff

You've got to be searching to find it.

I did. This stuff? I guess there is a problem with old threads advertised on front page almost 2million strong, we should only look at and reply to new posts
and ignore all old threads as not interesting, not helpful, does not pertain to photography today, unless it is a thread by someone named Photo Engineer.

If you need to know how I found it, it. I looked at "new hello welcome message" person from 2002 posted as if "just arrived" in a Jules Verne book yesterday, Friday 13th. I looked at previous posts to see what kind of conversation he had 20 years ago. You can click on "messages" under avatar and you are able to see "post herstory". This thread conversation looked interesting and it is. I like Mr Jackson's oeuvre, and David mentioned he had one arm. I never knew that and now I see his photography and boatsmanship in a different light. That's what I got out of the thread, what did you get?
 
Last edited:

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
39,551
Location
Southern California
Shooter
Multi Format
Twenty years this thread has been lying dormant.
It is a bit fascinating though that the "dilution of time" refers to quickly firing off an inexpensive (!!!!) roll of slide film.

When film was cheap, words were dirty and the air was clean!
 

Snowfire

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
71
Location
North Carolina
Shooter
35mm
75% waste is not bad at all, but I didn't want to use a higher percentage because that might indicate someone was a really bad photographer...;-)

I remember running across a journal I keep in my first year in Art School. 20 years later, the good ideas were for the most part still "interesting" and the bad still bad...but only now more nostolgic...

Professional wildlife photographers, even some very gifted and conscientious ones, may discard as much as 99.99% of what they shoot just to get those few shots that are good enough to publish. Some have admitted as much.
 

amam

Member
Joined
May 11, 2022
Messages
23
Location
tornado
Shooter
Analog
Professional wildlife photographers, even some very gifted and conscientious ones, may discard as much as 99.99% of what they shoot just to get those few shots that are good enough to publish. Some have admitted as much.

Fine Point!
It doesn't matter how slow you go you will still have .01% not worthy. Just look at the photographer in the re-make of Walter Mitty or anyone else. most people don't edit hard enough. They are afraid of telling themselves that most of what they make is not very good and they need the participation trophy. The fact of the matter is that most photographs people make are terrible and shouldn't be shared with others because they stink. :laugh:. it has gotten worse with digital cameras, much worse than the "friend's slide show", I swear sometimes I get an email, I mean online drop box drive full of like 2000 photographs from a friend who tells me they are their "latest" I sure wish they would edit, maybe there are 3 or 4 nuggets of gold in there. I'm much better, I would be a dunning kruger poster child if I thought different. I photographed family and out of 4000 photos I burned CDs and mailed them 30 images. Sadly they didn't expect 7 so I had to go over the fence and "please" the masses.

I wonder if Jackson felt the same pressure, that he had to have 100 photos, and just didn't do a hard edit, and now because the photos are hypnotizing they are good but he would have edited it down to 40 images.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
4,243
Location
New Jersey formerly NYC
Shooter
Multi Format
Professional wildlife photographers, even some very gifted and conscientious ones, may discard as much as 99.99% of what they shoot just to get those few shots that are good enough to publish. Some have admitted as much.

It's hard to get wildlife to pose. :wink:
 

mooseontheloose

Moderator
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,007
Location
Kyoto, Japan
Shooter
Multi Format
Twenty years this thread has been lying dormant.
It is a bit fascinating though that the "dilution of time" refers to quickly firing off an inexpensive (!!!!) roll of slide film.

I noticed this as well! I can't remember film and processing being that cheap, but of course it was. Now I can't even get my film scanned here in Japan since it costs more than the development (!) - I just do it myself (or would, if my scanner was working properly).

Also feeling a bit nostalgic over some of the posters who used to be quite prolific here on APUG (at least in the years after I joined) and haven't been around for many more since then.
 

momus

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
4,292
Location
Lower Earth
Shooter
Medium Format
Photography (film photography and darkroom printing) is a difficult craft to master. Having a good eye is absolutely necessary, but like all the other forms of art, requires mastery of the materials. I believe it was De Vinci, maybe, who said that the true tragedy in life is when inspiration surpasses execution.

The more we know about how things work, the freer we are to experiment and break the rules. But you can't start there, anymore than you could start where Picasso ended. One has to learn the fundamentals first. This is how it's been w/ any art for centuries.

Still, w/o a good eye and a particularly unique and true viewpoint, it's awfully easy to be one of those people who have nothing to say but say it beautifully. That comes up a lot in gallery shows. I don't mind that though, as long as they give me food and wine, I'll be happy to look at almost anything for a while. Even bad representational art, but that requires considerably more wine.
 
Last edited:
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford Photo ADOX Freestyle Photographic Photo Warehouse Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab
Top Bottom