The Long Dark Walk

My Word!!! Have we no concern for the sensibilities of the "Keepers of the Public Morals"? Let us refrain from using "coarse terms" when referring to parts of the human body. I would suggest the use of the term "Callipygian" where appropriate.

No, I'm not going to tell you what it means. Look it up in your dictionary.

Also, I think another word might prove useful in some of our replies: "Fecetious" (no, not misspelled) - from the Latin, "feces"; meaning that you are full of ...

Charles Webb said:

What girl? All is see is a road racer.

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What "road racer"?!?! Is this some sneaky attempt to "cloud our minds.."???

Who wrote this .. Lamont Cranston?

Charles Webb said:

What girl? All is see is a road racer with Cheriani forks and clip on bars. Insufficient detalail to make out what engine is mounted in the double cradle loop frame! Most likely are Pirelli RR tires.

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Now that's scarey. You are 100% right on all counts. The frame is a Rickman (#1329r) and the engine a Trident (#1329r).

Way , way back to the original post . . . .
Murray, I think you have started a potentially interesting topic, and I don't think it's about the lighter matters of what materials to use, or what to shoot anymore. I think it's about a life passage, and as such might possibly be exempt from the charge of navel gazing. I have little or no respect for my own self-indulgence anymore. If I thought my current long dry-spell were self-indulgent, I'd kick myself in the, er, ass, so to speak.

This "Long dark Walk" has a well-documented history in the monastic traditions. There it is called the "Dark Night of the Soul". I thought I had gone through that with my divorce and some serious life changes about 16 years ago, but now I see I was just "growing up" back then. The dry spell I'm in now doesn't have a simple "go out and shoot what makes you excited" solution. The questioning is much more profound this time.

I'm 53, which is still just a punk kid to some of our members, and just boringly middle-aged to others. But it's safe to say I'm past the half-way point, and the old philosophical musings are starting to get, well, dark. I found photography about 25 years ago, and it was (and to some extent still is) the only thing I had ever gone after that I felt I "owned". I loved it like a kid at Christmas, like falling in love in high school. You guys know what I mean. I read every goddam book in the public library about B&W photography. (They still had libraries back then). Every new box of Super XX or pack of paper was like some holy icon.

And now I'm going deeper and deeper into a sense of the futility of making little monochrome images on pieces of paper in a dark stinky room. Beyond that, it is a questioning of how I could lose the fire, and what could replace it? And I guess that is what this passage is all about -- you either come out the other end with a renewed passion, or you fade out of it altogether. Maybe it's a test of resolve, maybe it's the fear of death - waiting out there in the woods, ready to take everything I love away.

Again, this ain't self-pity. This is a genuine hole into which I have fallen, and I know damn well it's up to me to get out all by myself. I don't think the author who coined the term Long Dark Walk was looking for sympathy. I think he was documenting a phenomenon all artists go through at some point.

Would Mozart have continued producing such brilliant work had he lived until 80? Does anyone think Ansel Adams made a truly breathtaking image after about 1950? Maybe this thing is a winnowing process, and my work will return with real depth and maturity. And maybe I'll take up pottery instead.

blansky said:

my comment "nobody really gives a shit" didn't mean that we don't care that Murray is going through this, my comment meant that in reality nobody really cares about our work and our passion except us.

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I think this comment holds alot of truth to it. but perhaps not literally and on the surface. I think it IS possible that people could and may give a shit. But to follow the mindset of "Im going to do this because I need to and feel moved to, not because anyone will give a shit" I think thats a healthly artistic mindset. and perhaps when you find yourself really truly creating work from within you... you will slowly start to realize and recognize that a, perhaps, small few people in this world end up giving a shit.

just my thoughts though.

Ed Sukach said:

I would suggest the use of the term "Callipygian" where appropriate.

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A high-falutin' word for a reaction that's inherently non-verbal. Once again, words show their untrustworthiness. They attempt to mask more than they reveal end up revealing more than they were meant to.

Then again, "where appropriate...." hmmm.

Well, shoot what you love, I say.

I think it's about a life passage, and as such might possibly be exempt from the charge of navel gazing. I have little or no respect for my own self-indulgence anymore. If I thought my current long dry-spell were self-indulgent, I'd kick myself in the, er, ass, so to speak.

This seems pretty close to the truth. Camerawork can serve as a vehicle to explore these passages. The state of being simply 'is' and as such can be explored like anything else. Then it doesn't need to be pigeon-holed as 'navel-gazing' or vaunted as glorious 'artist angst', neither of which seem entirely well considered or helpful.

I'm suggesting normalizing experiences like depression or life transitions and exploring whatever feelings are there with photography. Just mabe the experiences can then have positive and creative potential because we approach them as normal experiences instead of being the enemy of all we want.

David said:

I'm suggesting normalizing experiences like depression or life transitions and exploring whatever feelings are there with photography.

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Beautiful. That's perfect.

And perhaps with a simple attitude change like that I can resume working. I guess I have the tendency to load my art work up with all kinds of "meaning", or like it has to be some preconceived thing. As I get older, I realize more and more that preconceptions are dead ends. Thanks for your insight.

Photography is all about capturing the beauty of light. Full stop. That's all. Courtesy of John Keats.

[QUOTE. As I get older, I realize more and more that preconceptions are dead ends..[/QUOTE]

This is the best thing I've ever read on APUG! Perhaps a corrolary is that an open mind cradles creativity.

We are all different.

Some of us choose to focus upon photography, at least in this forum, as our chief preoccupation. Many have other important interests that they pursue out of this domain. To the later I suggest that you find your particular penchant and respect this one as you do your other, and speak to ours if you can. If you cannot, then consider reflection and preceed your missive as "kinda interested, but...not really"

rhphoto's post was most helpfull.

clogz said:

Photography is all about capturing the beauty of light. Full stop. That's all. Courtesy of John Keats.

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True, but if we stop doing photography when we don't just see (or feel) beauty then the John Keats quote is just a quip. The trick is finding beauty where we don't expect to find it, e.g., depression or life transitions, etcetera, etc....

Just in case there is any question, there was only genuine admiration for what rhphoto said. Sacracasm can be misinterpreted but there was none intended, what he wrote IS the best thing I've read on APUG. It goes right to the heart of a lot of the pig-headed opinions one sees that are suppposed to be more true the louder or ruder one spouts them. Photography isn't an activity isolated from life and living. Who we are and how we see determines how we photograph. Everything else like technique and materials is only supportive but not the real thing.

I am attempting to make my livelihood from ULF photography and have been doing so for around 5 years. A central core of my being is intermingled with photography and that is why I thought rhphoto's comment was so spot on. It reflects an ideal that I attempt to live out.

What an interesting range of responses. Why anybody would get that aggressive over something they're obviously unwilling to even try to comprehend is beyond me. It doesn't hurt my feelings or make me mad in anyway, it just baffles me!?!

Maybe it's because there are some who are in the business of photography who feel no need to ask these sorts of navel gazing / life passage questions concerning their photography. As long as they meet the needs of their clients and seperate themselves from the herd a bit, all is well. (Cheryl would be the exception to this generalization as it seems to me she looks within herself to improve her images).

I've never had to hold my nose and get the photographic job done. I have a day job suited to me and I keep my photography as a purely personal expression free from any outside demands. This allows me the room to step back and ask hard questions -questions which I think every artist has to resolve before they can forge ahead at full throttle unencumbered by doubts.

Then again, my photography is self expression, not a means to put food on the table which would alter my perspective...a little...maybe...just a tad...possibly...

Murray

I take it that most of this last comment was directed to me and I'm sorry my previous comments came across as aggressive.

What I believe after doing photography for 29 years is that I've been through all the ups and downs that anyone can go through in this field. I've attended probably twenty seminars and workshops, have at one time or another gotten every photography publication and book out there. I've spent lots of time thinking about what I do, what my place in it is, how "good" I am, if I make a difference, and if what I do is important. I even took a couple of years off and renovated slum housing in LA, not sure if photography was even what I wanted to continue doing.

When I first started in photography I rented a downtown studio space with no money and no prospects and no brains. I spent 8 hours a day playing the piano I rented just to stop from going crazy. After a few years I worked my way up to a business with 4 employees and I printed everything I did. I learned to print both black and white and color and ended up working 80 hours weeks. I spent countless hours wondering what the hell I was doing this for. I've started over from scratch in 5 different cities and endured the dreaded start up time.

I've done weddings, portraits, commercial work, aerial photographs, product photography, headshot photography, movie stills photography and location scouting for car commercials.

Finally, I went back to portraits because it was the most self satisfying. I finally realized that none of what I did was that "important". I was never going to be world famous or incredibly rich or on the cover of Rolling Stone.

But what I did figure out, was what I stated early in this thread. You shoot for your own enjoyment and in doing so you try to enrich other people's lives. But in the end it doesn't really matter, unless what you're doing makes you happy doing it.

Everything you are doing can usually be done by someone else and you ain't all that special, so just do what you enjoy.

That took years of navel gazing to come to that conclusion, and since I did, I have never been happier doing what I do.

Michael

Thanks for that Michael, and I did take what you said earlier for what it was - a kick in the ass to jump start me out of a rut (Actually, I think Donald has one gosh-dern nasty thorn under his saddle).

From what you've said it sounds like you've commited yourself to photography more than most here, or I, could comprehend. Within that world you've found your place and that's a GREAT thing.

When I started taking photographs I used to take about 3 rolls of 36 exp 35mm colour slides on a day hike, and would really like (maybe) 5 images. When I started using a tripod I would take about 2 rolls, and would really like (maybe) 4 images. When I moved up to 6x7 on a tripod I would take about 1 roll, and would really like (maybe) 3 images. Over 20 years ago I started using 4x5 exclusively and average about 6 photographs on a day hike, of which I really like (maybe) 2 images.

If I feel the photograph I'm thinking of taking won't survive to be one of the ones I really like, I won't take it. If I feel it'll be a cliche, I won't take it. If I feel I'm thinking of taking it because I know it'll look pretty as a B&W photograph with no soul, I won't take it. Approaching photography this way means I need to be sure why I'm taking an image. Mid-life seems to be a time when people ask the big WHY questions...its the same for artists I guess.

Murray

MurrayMinchin said:

(Actually, I think Donald has one gosh-dern nasty thorn under his saddle).

Murray

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Murray, I am sorry if I offended your or anyone else's sensiblilities. I still feel quite strongly about all of the heavy, thoughtful, intellectually engrossing philosophical questions ongoingly posted here that obviously don't have any heavy, thoughtful, intellectually engrossing valid answers.

Speaking from my personal experience, gathered over the past twenty five years, and the experiences of others, it seems that these "heady and deeply philosophical questions" all come down to still further self absorbtion and self aggrandizement at monumental scale.

In retrospect, I think that I would have been better served to let you and all who want to engage their minds in these pursuits do so...hell I may be surprised and find that you may come up with the "meaning of life" in your ruminations.

I think that Michael expressed it very well when he alluded to not becoming too heavily involved with "thinking too much".

Heck if you or I don't feel like taking photos...then simply don't do it...if you want to do it later...do it...if you or I never want to do it again...we should do that too...the answers for why this happens are largely illusory...they are personal. I would hope that you would have the intelligence to not pretend that you have answers for me...or I for you. Until then I will leave the philosophical questions to those who want to spend their time so engaged. I will go and make photographs...or not.

Nuff said...

Donald Miller said:

Murray, I am sorry if I offended your or anyone else's sensiblilities. I still feel quite strongly about all of the heavy, thoughtful, intellectually engrossing philosophical questions ongoingly posted here that obviously don't have any heavy, thoughtful, intellectually engrossing valid answers.

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Well, hell Donald...what do you expect on a thread entitled ETHICS (1 - the branch of philosophy that deals with the principles of right and wrong action. 2 - standards of right conduct or proper action) and PHILOSOPHY (1 - a study that aims at understanding the basic principles of the universe, life, morals, etc. 2 - a system of beliefs about the universe and life, esp. those of a particular group or person. 3 - the guiding principles followed in a particular activity or field of knowledge)??????????????????

Did I miss the link to the site where all these answers can be found? Seems to me there's more than just a little wiggle room for different interpretations!! !!

Murray

MurrayMinchin said:

Well, hell Donald...what do you expect on a thread entitled ETHICS (1 - the branch of philosophy that deals with the principles of right and wrong action. 2 - standards of right conduct or proper action) and PHILOSOPHY (1 - a study that aims at understanding the basic principles of the universe, life, morals, etc. 2 - a system of beliefs about the universe and life, esp. those of a particular group or person. 3 - the guiding principles followed in a particular activity or field of knowledge)??????????????????

Did I miss the link to the site where all these answers can be found? Seems to me there's more than just a little wiggle room for different interpretations!! !!

Murray

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I have to agree with Murray. This is the philosophy thread after all. Coming in here and complaining about people philosophizing is like going into the "Lounge" and compling about off-topic posts<g>.

Personally, I don't philosophize as much as I used to (I'm not sure why that is, but I'll put some thought into it). I have no problem with people looking at life in a larger context that what we can immediately see, smell and feel. I think it's just part of our nature to do so - remember this planet was created by a race of super-intelligent mice and we were specifically designed to think about the meaning of life, the universe and everything. So we shouldn't complain when that's just what we do. And being philosophical doesn't preclude one from being highly active - they aren't mutually exclusive - quite often I find myself thinking and doing at the same time. I'm not sure how I do it - I guess it's a gift.

As for the long dark walk, so far I've only done that when I have to get up at night and go pee. But I have many years ahead of me, much of which I plan on being on the road photographing, so it may turn into The Long Dark Drive.

-Mike

Donald Miller said:

Murray, I am sorry if I offended your or anyone else's sensiblilities. I still feel quite strongly about all of the heavy, thoughtful, intellectually engrossing philosophical questions ongoingly posted here that obviously don't have any heavy, thoughtful, intellectually engrossing valid answers. ...

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The process is the product, and often it brings large personal ethical and esthetic rewards. You reacted strongly so it seems you still aren't over what you claim to be over, else you would just shrug. Quietly.

I generally agree with Donald Miller and blansky, but with an aside. When I first read Murray's post I thought, well I must be having Long Dark Walk's every night and sometimes during lunch, because I always question my direction, my goals, my methods, my supplies, is my pleasure still outweighing the stress and strife, everything. Always trying to be sure I have checked and rechecked and thought and rethought till hopefully (the goal anyway) I can relax into masterful skill.

Now most of you know I am not a photog, but run a darkroom; even so that takes creativity and ingenuity, and the darkroom is only one of my artistic interests, . . . notably the one that pays for the rest. So hopefully my opine counts even if you all have never been able to evaluate whether I could comprehend an artist's (verbal or visual) path.