The Inevitable

milkplus-mesto · Mar 5, 2008

I'm 15, and for the last year and a half, I've been interested in photography - I started off digitally, and I've recently started to shoot some film. Hence I'm here.

A few of my friends are starting to get into photography - one of them, I will admit does have technical knowledge, and does produce some stunning photos - but he doesn't appreciate film at all. But my gripe is with the others.

Some of them have SLRs, and some have prosumer cameras, however, none of them really know what they're doing.

I don't claim to be a good photorapher - that takes years, and i'm only young. I want to learn though. I have read about the technical skill, and know where I am, I think that film will help with that a great deal.

The problem I have is with my friends, without knowing what aperture is, not knowing the existance of exposure correction, colour profiles, the raw format - they are acting as pseudo-professionals, and not caring for technical knowledge. They act as "<insert name here> Photography" with little regard for focus or unclipped highlights.

The main trouble is the prevolence of these people - thousands of pseudo-professionals. Which could present the biggest danger to the real professional photographers. I fit into neither group.

Photo Engineer · Mar 5, 2008

Keep at it, no matter what 'they' say or do.

PE

Andy K · Mar 5, 2008

Don't worry about what your friends do, let them take their own road, you are on the right path, stick with it.

milkplus-mesto · Mar 5, 2008

Thanks, i was just venting something that'd been bugging me for a while. I mean, it's come to the point where if i take my pentax me super into school, i have to explain what it is - because it's not a digital camera people think it's outdated and obsolete. I actually prefer it to my 40D, which is saying something

sausage100uk · Mar 5, 2008

doing weddings and baby shots might make you a pro photographer it dont make you a good photographer...

arigram · Mar 5, 2008

Should be happy about going your own way and be unique among the herd.
In your age, acceptance among your peers might seem important, but you
have to realize that your own personality can only flourish when you take
the brave step of following what your heart tells you.
Dare to differ, dare to be a human!

Pinholemaster · Mar 5, 2008

The story of photography.

eddym · Mar 5, 2008

Funny... I'm 52 years older than you are, and we have the same kind of friends.

removed account4 · Mar 5, 2008

you'll find lots of friends
when you take the backroads
instead of the interstate

david b · Mar 5, 2008

hey, if all of your friends jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge with a digital camera around their necks,
would you?

Do what makes you happy.

milkplus-mesto · Mar 5, 2008

yes, but i'd have a bungee cord.

i'd need to get some decent shots of them falling - you see. maybe "the fall of consumer photography" would be a good title for a set.

JBrunner · Mar 5, 2008

Very insightful at fifteen to diagnose the malaise that has infected photography. What you are observing is defined as "hack photography" created by "hack" photographers. They were around long before the advent of digital, just not quite as numerous. The best thing if you are intent on becoming a photographer is to ignore them. Illegitimi non carborundum.

Shooting film will give you a far greater understanding of photography than the other stuff. It is a more difficult skill set in many ways, but once mastered, your creativity is freed, because the process becomes second nature, you are in control instead of some algorithm, and it doesn't have to be constantly re-mastered, updated, and upgraded.

You can chase electronic magic bullets that don't exist, but for your wallet, or you can learn. Film will help you learn. Look to the past masters to see what was accomplished, and you will see the limit isn't technology, as what they accomplished in the past is still possible today, without the distraction of a burdensome technology. The biggest problem with that other stuff is that for many it becomes what it is all about. That's why they don't bother to learn craft. That would take effort and insight. You sound like you already get it.

Welcome to APUG, and welcome to film. You have discovered a wonderful world, away from the mundane.

panastasia · Mar 5, 2008

You can tell your friends that what they call "raw format" ("raw file" to be exact) is the only thing that is somewhat equivalent to film in terms of the actual image captured.

I have a digital camera w/all the whistles and bells, but I hardly ever use it anymore - I got bored with it and all the nonsense - I felt like it was designed for the idiot, and that's how I feel now every time I use it.

Don't worry about what your friends think, you'll learn what's important before they will, here on APUG.
We are your new friends! Welcome!

milkplus-mesto · Mar 5, 2008

I'm glad i've found somewhere like this, with people who respect photography.

My worry is that i'll end up growing up into a world full of photographers like that, and there'll be no way of even getting my photos seen by people because of the number of them - being lost in a crowd of people with little technical skill but who take "cool photos" by accident.

as for moving to film - i'm going to take 5-10 rolls with me when i go to italy, black and white, and then invade my school's darkroom when I get back. That way i can show some of my friends what film means - i'm new to it, but after my first roll a while back, i've basically become hooked on it. My photos are real, look, they're in that little canister there, you can look at them - whereas on a memory card, they're just little bits of electricity. I know what i prefer.

(on another note, does anyone know what airline's policies are regarding film, can you ask for it not to be scanned in case the x-rays damage it, or will this just raise suspicion?)

Early Riser · Mar 5, 2008

milkplus-mesto said:
I'm 15, and for the last year and a half, I've been interested in photography - I started off digitally, and I've recently started to shoot some film. Hence I'm here.

A few of my friends are starting to get into photography - one of them, I will admit does have technical knowledge, and does produce some stunning photos - but he doesn't appreciate film at all. But my gripe is with the others.

Some of them have SLRs, and some have prosumer cameras, however, none of them really know what they're doing.

I don't claim to be a good photorapher - that takes years, and i'm only young. I want to learn though. I have read about the technical skill, and know where I am, I think that film will help with that a great deal.

The problem I have is with my friends, without knowing what aperture is, not knowing the existance of exposure correction, colour profiles, the raw format - they are acting as pseudo-professionals, and not caring for technical knowledge. They act as "<insert name here> Photography" with little regard for focus or unclipped highlights.

The main trouble is the prevalence of these people - thousands of pseudo-professionals. Which could present the biggest danger to the real professional photographers. I fit into neither group.

Digital has made the self imposed distinction of "professional photographer" that much more prevalent. It's not just in people of your age group do those ignorant of the true requirements of the profession, profess to be professional. The first thing that anyone needs to know in order to master any given task or endeavor is just how little they do know and how vast the knowledge they need to know. I'm doing this full time professionally for 30 years and I'm still learning.

I sense that you will take the time to master the art and craft of photography. Time, effort and the desire to better yourself can take you far.

Early Riser · Mar 5, 2008

milkplus-mesto said:
I
(on another note, does anyone know what airline's policies are regarding film, can you ask for it not to be scanned in case the x-rays damage it, or will this just raise suspicion?)

In the US if you ask for a hand search by law they are required to oblige. They may say that only high speed film is affected by the x-rays, and there is some truth in that, but then again your film may end up going through several security check points and getting zapped repeatedly building up an intolerable doasge. Also when you are 30,000 feet up, you and your film are subjected to higher levels of cosmic radiation which can also add to the fog of the film.

Under no circumstances pack ANY film in checked baggage. That is the bags that are carried in the belly of the plane. That film will be subjected to a CT scanner which will almost certainly ruin the film

JBrunner · Mar 5, 2008

milkplus-mesto said:
I'm glad i've found somewhere like this, with people who respect photography.

My worry is that i'll end up growing up into a world full of photographers like that, and there'll be no way of even getting my photos seen by people because of the number of them - being lost in a crowd of people with little technical skill but who take "cool photos" by accident.

as for moving to film - i'm going to take 5-10 rolls with me when i go to italy, black and white, and then invade my school's darkroom when I get back. That way i can show some of my friends what film means - i'm new to it, but after my first roll a while back, i've basically become hooked on it. My photos are real, look, they're in that little canister there, you can look at them - whereas on a memory card, they're just little bits of electricity. I know what i prefer.

(on another note, does anyone know what airline's policies are regarding film, can you ask for it not to be scanned in case the x-rays damage it, or will this just raise suspicion?)

All the hacks have pretty much gone digital. The only way you'll get lost in that crown is if you follow them in. Don't worry about "showing" anybody anything. Just learn your art and craft, and express yourself through them.

Most of the people you want to "show" aren't sophisticated enough to "see"

It's like trying to teach pigs to sing. Frustrates you, and irritates the pig.

When traveling with film take it in your carry on. If you put it in checked baggage it will be destroyed by the baggage Xray machines. The carry on machines usually won't hurt it. You can ask for a hand inspection, and usually it will be granted, although the rules vary from country to country.
Just keep it in your carry-on, in a clear baggie out of the canisters, and ask for hand inspection, but don't freak if you can't get it. I travel with film all the time, and it winds up getting Xrayed from time to time. No damage, and thats checking with a densitometer. High speed, like over 800 and infrared film are more sensitive, but I'm thinking your shooting more conventionally.

milkplus-mesto · Mar 5, 2008

JBrunner said:
...but I'm thinking your shooting more conventionally.

I do indeed, only ISO 125/400 film as yet - but as I get to know film a little better I might start to experiment with higher sensitivities.

Chuck_P · Mar 5, 2008

milkplus-mesto said:
as for moving to film - i'm going to take 5-10 rolls with me when i go to italy, black and white, and then invade my school's darkroom when I get back.

I'm glad your school still has a darkroom .

Welcome to APUG

Chuck

MurrayMinchin · Mar 5, 2008

Your eyes are open and you're asking questions...you'll do just fine!

Murray

milkplus-mesto · Mar 5, 2008

CPorter said:
I'm glad your school still has a darkroom .

Chuck

Yeah, it does It just doesn't let many people know about it - i can go in there and get from film to prints all in one session, and people would have just thought i'd dissappeared into a broom cupboard. I'm one of about 3 people in the whole of years 7-10 who knows it's there. And of those three, i'm the only one who'd use it for photography.

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Mar 5, 2008

It's been happening since photography started, and in most other crafts. There will always be a group of people who think they know what they're doing, and will tell people loudly. In photography, all they need is a bulky SLR and a big lens, and they can act professional.
Someone once told me to "beware the guy who sits in the corner smiling, because he knows what he's ****ing doing.

I was in the same position as you when I started three years ago, I ended up the only person using film in my highschool photography class, and had to build my own darkroom because the school's was shut down the year before. Our teacher was our old art teacher with a digital point-and-shoot and a Photoshop training course.
It's just as dangerous to feel you have to prove yourself to those people, and tout your use of film loudly back at them. Learn the craft intimately, experiment, and keep at it. By then it doesnt matter what format you're using, if you're a good photographer it doesn't matter.

brian steinberger · Mar 5, 2008

I'm 25 and consider myself somewhat young, and I will shoot film forever as well. Don't worry about your friends. You know what you enjoy, and that you're more skilled and that you are acutally beginning to master an art. You will always have confidence in that.

That is great that your school has a darkroom! My school abandoned the darkroom a few years after I graduated (2000). Use it for all it's worth! I really don't think you need to worry about film in the future. It will be there. Like others have said, you seem to have found your niche and you have a great group of people here who you can talk to and ask questions. Welcome aboard! Look forward to seeing some of your work in the gallery.

Now, next thing you know you'll be bugging your parents to let you put a darkroom in the basement while you're looking at medium and large format cameras on ebay!

Christopher Walrath · Mar 5, 2008

Owning a D40 makes you a professional photographer just like going to McDonald's makes you a cheeseburger. It's not what you use, it's what you do with it. Don't try to be a professional photographer, because selling a copy of a print for $5.00 makes you a pro by definition. Instead concentrate on being knowlegdeable and flexible. You're on the right track. Learn what light does, whether analog or d****** (no, I didn't really say that, it was him) and then apply it to your weapon of choice with all the fervor of a crusade. Keep at it and take that Pentax to school every chance you get. Get to be the go to guy for how and why.

Michael W · Mar 5, 2008

I had a Pentax ME Super & used it for 10 years or so until the shutter broke. Great camera with some excellent lenses available. Shooting B&W & dev and print yourself will take you a long way in learning about photography. Once you get into this you will enjoy it so much that you will no longer be concerned with what the others are doing.

The Inevitable

milkplus-mesto

Photo Engineer

Andy K

milkplus-mesto

sausage100uk

arigram

Pinholemaster

eddym

removed account4

david b

milkplus-mesto

JBrunner

Moderator

panastasia

milkplus-mesto

Early Riser

Early Riser

JBrunner

Moderator

milkplus-mesto

Chuck_P

MurrayMinchin

Membership Council

milkplus-mesto

Alex Bishop-Thorpe

brian steinberger

Christopher Walrath

Michael W

The Inevitable

Moderator

Moderator

Membership Council

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