The Human Zoo

Hi all--

I'm just getting back into photography in a more serious way (including a return to b/w film instead of digital). I have a job that takes me around the world and will continue to do so, so there's a lot to photograph. But living in the third world, and one of the poorest countries in it, has really made photography difficult for me. In some cases, it's because it's unsafe to photograph at all. But in general, I'm just bothered by contributing to a canon of images that concerns me...photos of the poor, homeless, or otherwise disadvantaged being couched as somehow "picturesque."

So now here I am surrounded by people who are different than me. Something bothers me about just snapping away. Someone like Salgado has legitimate reasons for doing what he does, and I don't question that. I'm not Walker Evans.

I'm neither an ethnographer nor a journalist, and pretending my image-making is somehow done with love and affection for this place (which I have) seems sort of arrogant and self-absorbed. I'm making images to satisfy myself or impress others with my own skill...or am I just trying to share my experiences in life? Does it matter?

What happens when I make a photo of someone simply because they're an "other," possibly with some layers of nostalgia from my Rollei and Tri-X to top it off? Then I print and frame it and hang it on the wall, like this random guy with grass on his head? What happens when I give the image to a family member to hang on the wall? (Not that I'm trying to say this is amazing work, mind you...this is just the one and only photo of a random person I've made in over a year here.)



Does the context of my photography matter? Is it more ethical if I'm doing this as part of a project which benefits or simply studies and records the people and country, rather than me considering it some sort of "artwork?" Am I wrong for thinking it's demeaning to consider people "picturesque" for who they are/where and how they live/what they wear?

(And the guy in the photo was happy to stand there for a photo so long as I gave him some cash...shoot anyone in public here and they'll probably expect it, and become angry and possibly violent if you don't.)

Thoughts?? Am I just uptight or over-thinking this?

I realy don't want to be glib here, so please forgive me if it my inept use of language makes it come across that way, but if you are really troubled by the feeling that your photography is trivialising these people then put down your camera and do something more concrete. Help out in a clinic, or bake bread.

(Forgive me, I've no idea what you do. Perhaps you work in a clinic)

But don't be ashamed to use your camera. You're simply documenting the world around you. The fact that your world is the Third World, and not Pittsburgh or Paris, means your pictures will feature poverty. So be it. But don't let poverty be your only subject. I expect there are exremes of wealth where you are too - there usually are - and that makes an interesting contrast.

Just take pictures of what you see, and just worry about taking the best pictures you can.

Cheers, P.

BTW, I love the picture of the guy with the grass on his head.

Cheers, P.

No, I don't think you are being uptight or over-thinking this. I think you sound like a very intelligent person. Having lived in Louisiana during the Katrina/Rita hurricanes and now also in Asia. I have seen the lengths that some photogs go to in the exploitation of the poor and disaster stricken areas of the world. It is just disgusting. Not only that but then they take there snaps to NY or other areas to put on a display. Pure exploitation. No thought. No meaning.

Thanks...

I guess it's not that I feel what I'm doing with a camera is so terribly demeaning...I mean, I walk away with an image on film, not having taken anything from anyone, and I'm not publishing photos in magazines to sell them or anything so exploitative as that could become (re: Katrina, more than say Nat Geo)...but that it's just sort of boring and self-indulgent.

This is supposed to be something you do because you find it interesting. If you find it boring, do something else. If you're just worried about someone else finding it boring, sod 'em. Do it for you.

P.

Make a pictorial stories not just a different or "interesting" picture. Set as journal of your life rather than become happy snap-shooter. With this poin-of-view (and challenge) - your picture will be better. You will not exploiting, but taking a note.

I like this picture, and as other's have said... if this is where you are, and it interests you, then make some pictures. Why not?

That said, poverty has been documented a lot... and in ways that are very exploitative. There is a quote from Max Kozloff... something along the lines that "concerned photography can be quite brutal" or some such. It's important to find the humanity in the people you encounter and photograph. I don't like it when I see pictures of poverty that are made to evoke the sentiment of "I feel sorry for these people". That is self-indulgent and boring.

Your picture here shows some dignity. If you keep at it like this, you'll have a fine and unique group of pictures of your travels. Oh, and give those you photograph a print. You can bet Salgado doesn't do that.

It would be interesting if the photos could also show the "(And the guy in the photo was happy to stand there for a photo so long as I gave him some cash...shoot anyone in public here and they'll probably expect it, and become angry and possibly violent if you don't.)" bit.

Dear AgentX,

Thanks for your post. I have lived and worked a few years in the developing world myself and have had similar thoughts.

However, were I used to live, in the former soviet republic of Tajikistan, I was quite often invited to photograph when people saw that I carried a camera. I was once asked in a small mountain village if I would show my pictures on the Internet. I replied that I might want to do that if they were successful. “-Then please make some more photos!” came the reply. Often I was met with the attitude that their country was neglected and forgot. This inspired me to publish the photos on a photo blog to show what I saw to friends, family and others that may stumble upon it. I always (almost) asked in beforehand, and have tried not to show photos that depict people in a derogatory way.

My experience may of course be specific for the region. Now I spend time regularly in North Africa through my job, and attitudes seem to be different there. When I want to make photos in such places I usually first try to find a reason to chat with the people around me. This is also a way to avoid feeling like (and maybe being) a stupid tourist, just snapping away at “picturesque” scenes one does not even begin to understand. I have not yet been asked for a fee from people that would pose for me.

When I read your post I feel that you may be too harsh towards yourself. If you feel love and affection for the place where you live, then I am sure that your photos are made in that spirit. To convey this to those seeing your pictures – that is of course the tricky part. But also a very worthy task, as the developing world too often is shown as only, merely sad and hopeless.

Erik

I love the picture! It reminds me of when I was in Guatemala, my first day out - just me with a friend who lived there. We were on a beautiful (bumpy dirt) winding and rolling road. I asked her to stop so I could get a picture. In the distance I could see a man coming toward us, riding a bicycle, and another walking beside him. I was elated at this picturesque scene... till they got closer and I saw they were both carrying machetes. I panicked a bit (trying to look serene) and jumped in the vehicle. MaryJo got a good laugh, and waved at the friendly men as we rode on.

After that day I saw men in fields every day, cutting the brush with machetes.

Forgive me for my naivete, and keeping in mind that I'm neither a photojournalist or professional photographer, but the most important aspect of photographing the dire situations of peoples in underdeveloped countries, AFAIC, is the exposure such images lend to the plight of the peoples themselves, especially bringing to light certain situations that are within our realm of influence to effect some degree of change.

And just as importantly, there is the aspect of bringing to light the attributes of other peoples and cultures in such a manner that preserves their dignity and the uniqueness of their culture. After all, not all peoples are as miserable as perhaps we think we'd be were we deprived of our westernized standards of material substance. Many peoples in the world are very happy in their domestic situations, however foreign that seems to us; perhaps this is more of an indictment against our culture than theirs. So the challenge is to somehow document these peoples and cultures without demeaning them or talking down to them. To remain an unbiased observer is perhaps the most succinct way of stating it.

I can think of a NYT article I saw just yesterday that revealed the dumping of chemical toxins from European industry into Darfur and other blighted areas of Africa, helping to exacerbate the already dire situation of its peoples.

I can suppose that, in your situation as a business traveler, your photographic images you may consider only to be tourist snaps, but they can nevertheless be important documents of the places and peoples you visit. Perhaps you can build some context to them, and post them to a photo-hosting website in such a manner that the situations and the culture are revealed with little regard for bias or agenda, attempting to remain as neutral of an observer as possible, while still giving light to the reality of their situation. A fine line to tread, indeed. But think of your travel situation as a unique opportunity, a gift that you've been given.

Here's hoping to see more of the fruits of your endeavors.

~Joe

Welcome to the joys and connundrums of photography!!

Seriously interesting topic; thanks for raising it.

AgentX said:

But in general, I'm just bothered by contributing to a canon of images that concerns me...photos of the poor, homeless, or otherwise disadvantaged being couched as somehow "picturesque."

So now here I am surrounded by people who are different than me. [...] What happens when I make a photo of someone simply because they're an "other," possibly with some layers of nostalgia from my Rollei and Tri-X to top it off?

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It strikes me that you're mixing two ideas a bit, here. Making the photo of someone simply because they're an "other" is not necessarily the same as making the photo because they're "disadvantaged"; the sort of condescending concern that you seem to be thinking of is one way of relating to people as an "other", but it certainly isn't the only way, and it isn't even the only way that works with people drastically poorer than oneself.

For what it's worth, I don't get any sense of condescension from the picture you posted; it looks to me like a guy in the middle of doing a day's work, in circumstances where a day's work is pretty rough going by my standards. (I'm not quite sure *why* he has that grass on his head, but I assume it's out of necessity, not because carrying bundles of grass is a hobby or a religious devotion or something...) The camera seems to see him as "other" enough to be an interesting subject just by virtue of being there, but that picture doesn't say to me "hey, you, pity this guy!". So I think your picture actually points up the difference between the two ideas I mentioned.

Am I wrong for thinking it's demeaning to consider people "picturesque" for who they are/where and how they live/what they wear?

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IMHO, yes; but I guess it depends on what concepts you load into the word "picturesque". If you ask me, it's demeaning to *reduce* people to their "picturesque" aspects, but if a picture doesn't do that---if it preserves the subject's humanity and complicated nuances like that---then I don't really see a problem.

-NT

I think your concern is heart felt and genuine. I applaud you for that. I agree with others that you should not stop taking the photos that you enjoy so much. All I can think to say is to try and find a way to give back to the people you photograph. The idea to give prints is a good one. Something you may want to think about is to try instant prints. To do this you would have to get a Polaroid Land camera. The 195 and 180 are both fully manual. You would also need Fuji pull apart pack film. I heard an interview with a photog that would carry around a Polaroid and give an instant print to their subjects as a token for posing for a shot.

Also you can try to find a why to display the images for the people to see them themselves. I have no idea how possible that could even be. I could see this with images that show them in a proud way. The guy with the bundle of grass on his head would be a good one.

Best regards and God Speed

Jason

AgentX said:

Thanks...

I guess it's not that I feel what I'm doing with a camera is so terribly demeaning...I mean, I walk away with an image on film, not having taken anything from anyone, and I'm not publishing photos in magazines to sell them or anything so exploitative as that could become (re: Katrina, more than say Nat Geo)...but that it's just sort of boring and self-indulgent.

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I think that publishing photographs of people suffering can actually bring attention to their situation and perhaps change things. I don't find that exploitative or demeaning. Think of Salgado, Nachtwey and the photographers of the American civil rights movement. Among countless other examples.

-Laura

lns said:

I think that publishing photographs of people suffering can actually bring attention to their situation and perhaps change things. I don't find that exploitative or demeaning. Think of Salgado, Nachtwey and the photographers of the American civil rights movement. Among countless other examples.

-Laura

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I don't think you will ever be pleased with your images if you are intentionally trying to capture their plights and suffering for it's own sake. Try to spend some time and get to know them. Mix it up with them when possible. Show interest in their lives. Eventually you will start getting images where their strength and dignity will shine through, sometimes in the face of great adversity. These will be images you will cherish forever.

I say this based on my experiences in Turkey almost 30 years ago.

Thanks all for the interesting discussion.

Just wanted to chime in because I travel a great deal (not for work, but mainly to developing countries) and I primarily photograph people. I admit it's not something I think about much while I'm doing it, I just do it, but this topic is something I've thought about simply because other tourists ask me about it. Not in an accusatory way generally, but many other travelers are curious how I can take photos of strangers.

Dignity, as mentioned above, is one reason. Thus far, while I've certainly taken photos of people with very little money, "disadvantaged" is not a word I would necessarily use. They may be living in a rural place where no one has any money so they're more or less equals, perhaps they live off what they grow, or perhaps things are simply incredibly cheap there. It's different than documenting the gap between rich and poor in cities, which also has merit if done properly. Essentially I'm taking tourist snaps, but I do my best to sense when people are proud to have their photo taken and I don't make them look bad. And if I sense they want it, I offer to send prints. And when it's the right person, we can have great conversations as well. I do street photography as well, but when traveling I strive for more interaction than I might while at home (where there are fewer differences between me and my subjects).

I think keeping my subject's dignity in mind helps me past that "do I only find this picturesque because it's weird" concern. Because I don't think it's weird, I often find such-and-such to be fascinating and talk to the subjects about it, whatever "it" is.

Documentation is another reason. Why should I be forced to keep all the things I see around inside my own head? Yes, I am photographing THEM, but this is my life too, and this is what I see & experience. In addition, it's worth a great deal to show people & lives that are "other" to those who don't get the chance to see it live. Now, if you REALLY think you're only taking the photos to impress others...you may need to reconsider. Why do you need to impress others? But if it's as simple as sharing experiences...what could possibly be wrong with that?

One little thing to add: I am viewed as "other" by the majority of the population pretty much anywhere I travel outside of East Asia. I have my photo taken all. the. time. thanks to the rise of cameraphones. I find it amusing, and I know that a small part of me feels slightly justified when I remember how many photos of me there are floating around Syria or Colombia or wherever.

Mike Richards said:

I say this based on my experiences in Turkey almost 30 years ago.

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These are fantastic! Turkey is a wonderful place, and these are a great historical document. I find this one particularly delightful: http://web.me.com/richam/Turkey/TurkeyExpo.html#7, but really like the Erzurum ones as well.

What a great photograph. It works for me on different levels--ethnographic, portrait, the way the landscape is raised up into the negative space of the sky. Even a little humor, with the grass substituting for hat or hair. Keep photographing and keep questioning, your photographs aren't a commodity unless you make them so.

If you can't find the answer to your doubts, just stop thinking and do what you love to do. That is a beautiful image which means you fulfilled already one requirement necessary.
If you do something with love the rest will come by itself.

I have never taken the examples of the masters as somethng that tells me "you will never get at this level", quite the contrary, as an inspiration that can help me to further my art.