The Forgotten 'China Girls' Hidden at the Beginning of Old Films

Kino

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Alan Edward Klein

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I don't recall seeing women in the leaders. But. back in the 1950's and 60's, I always liked the leader start-ins on old films especially news flashes and documentaries so I added the clips of them to the beginning of my own videos.
Like this (click the arrow):
 
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Kino

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Yes, a variant of the "Academy Countdown", but it appears you used an Adobe product to edit this video.

There is a very complicated and storied history of countdowns that has yet to be written, and probably never will. I don't think anyone cares enough to put the effort into the huge undertaking it would be...
 

Alan Edward Klein

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Yes, I use Premiere Elements. The clips are available in the program. You can change colors and other thing and make them look old like old movies. What is the story about countdowns?
 
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Kino

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They evolved over a period of 70 years from early talkies, to modern sound films to television to digital production. Now, they are more an anachronism than a practical tool; digital production really doesn't need them, but they look neat!
 

AgX

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Who has ever seen these girls? On film I mean...
 
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Kino

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I see one or two of them on a daily basis!

Usually, its just a frame or two cut into the leaders for control purposes.
 

Alan Edward Klein

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Kino said:
They evolved over a period of 70 years from early talkies, to modern sound films to television to digital production. Now, they are more an anachronism than a practical tool; digital production really doesn't need them, but they look neat!
Click to expand...
Yeah they're neat. But they do have a purpose, even today. They give the viewer a chance to turn the sound on and adjust the volume on their TV or computer or cellphone as well as check the resolution streaming size before the actual "show" starts. I'm assuming, that was the original purpose of these leads for the projectionist as were the China Girls..
 
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Kino

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"China Dolls", LAD targents, etc., were more of a proof print for the lab; the projectionist really didn't use it.
 

Alan Edward Klein

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Kino said:
"China Dolls", LAD targents, etc., were more of a proof print for the lab; the projectionist really didn't use it.
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What's LAD targents and what does that mean?
 

Alan Edward Klein

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Alan Edward Klein

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Alan Edward Klein said:
Could that linked display be used to calibrate a monitor?
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I suppose you;d need the original print. WHo knows what the web did to the colors or the guy who scanned it. But if you have an original print, could you use it to calibrate a monitor? Are their other samples prints to use other than a electronic "puck"?
 
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Kino

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Lee Rust said:
For technical reasons, no dark-skinned ladies. Very noticeable these days.
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I've seen a few; not many in film prints, but like here:
http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/pdi_download/
I am pretty sure Melvin Van Peebles had black models for the china doll on his films. I won't repeat his quote on why he did that, but he had some valid reasons. Seems most Hollywood graders tended to make Black People have a greenish tint to their skins.
 

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Kino said:
Seems most Hollywood graders tended to make Black People have a greenish tint to their skins.
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Probably because that meant that Caucasian people would have pink (aka light magenta) tints to their skins.
I've seen so many people posit that the reasons are racist. I think that the reasons were mostly related to marketing to a particular target market.
 

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When I was a part time 16mm projectionist in the late 1970s (student job) I only remember the Academy leader countdown with the sound beep at 3 seconds and then black. I can't recall any "china girls".
Later when I started in a wholesale photofinishing lab I remember using the Kodak "Shirley" or colour control negs which we used as a visual colour correction aid.



Fuji had their own but it was biased towards Asian skin tones (as seen by Fuji) and if used to colour correct then caucasian skin would look too yellow.
Agfa was the first that I saw with 3 models similar to the 1995 Kodak one below


Kodak "Sherley" print , left 1978 and right 1995.
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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This suddenly adds a new context to the Iggy Pop/Bowie song "China Girl."
 
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