The end of film cameras

anm · Jun 22, 2011

This is not one of those posts saying film is dead, but I'm coming from this from a practical standpoint.

The debate about how long will film photography last usually seems to focus on how long people think film manufacturers will continue to make film.

But, surely there is also a question about the cameras themselves.

Over the last year I have happily picked up a Nikon F80, an Olympus Trip 35 and a Canonet QL17 GIII. All three for less than £100 in total.

I may be wrong, but other than Leica, Voightlander and Lomo, there are no film camera manufacturs out there, certainly none mass produced.

So, in 20 years time when I drop my F80 and it breaks, will I look on ebay to find there are none left to buy, or those that are left are rare exotic collectors items.

Should I be stocking up on indestructible metal, mechanical film SLRs?

Jim Noel · Jun 22, 2011

To answer your question - if you are interested in 35mm cameras by all means stock up. They are more durable in many ways. Since I primarily use large format cameras I am not worried as these cameras last will over 100 years and can easily be repaired in most cases. I am 82 years young and believe my cameras will outlive me.

Aristophanes · Jun 22, 2011

Bingo!

This is the weak link in the chain of supply. No doubt about it.

The market will require both MF and AF systems, 35mm and 120, and optics. Prices need to reasonable, not Leica, and not even Bessa. SLR and RF.

And an AF system smaller than the F6.

hpulley · Jun 22, 2011

I can still buy and use cameras made 100 years ago. What makes you think you won't be able to buy a 1990 film Nikon in 2090?

Steve Smith · Jun 22, 2011

hpulley said:
I can still buy and use cameras made 100 years ago. What makes you think you won't be able to buy a 1990 film Nikon in 2090?

Indeed. And I have made large and medium format cameras within the last few years. That ability is not going to be lost.

If I needed to, I'm sure I could build a 35mm camera too - but I'm not going too!

Steve.

Aristophanes · Jun 22, 2011

hpulley said:
I can still buy and use cameras made 100 years ago. What makes you think you won't be able to buy a 1990 film Nikon in 2090?

Because Nikon won't make a money-losing camera with an antiquated flip-up mirror in 80 years. And a mechanical shutter. Etc.

Maybe micro-manufacturing on all this sunk cost IP will save the day. Hard to say. To mass produce you need a mass market.

Aristophanes · Jun 22, 2011

It should be pointed out that Vivitar makes both a low-end Nikon F100 and a K-mount 135 model, both affordable. They have stepped up to fill a void. How long that will last is anyone's guess.

Jeff Kubach · Jun 22, 2011

There is a good number of used cameras still around. I'll be long dead when they disapear.

Jeff

benjiboy · Jun 22, 2011

It's only the OPs third post and I already fell like killing myself, what does he/she do for an encore ?

anm · Jun 22, 2011

I'm 'only' 37. I know there are tank like indestructable things that will be around forever, and there are cheap plastic things still being made, but the middle ground of affordable, good quality cameras seems to be the weak point, maybe there's an opportunity there for a camera manufacturer to step in.

thegman · Jun 22, 2011

For 35mm cameras, you've got Leica, Cosina, Fujifilm, Lomography, and some other "toy" camera makers. There are probably some others I'm forgetting, but it seems hard to believe that if film is still available, film cameras won't be.

removed account4 · Jun 22, 2011

when you can't get the 35mm camera anymore,
and you can't find them in the used market,
it might be time to dabble in a different format
which is more plentiful ... or make a box camera
or have fun with paper, instead of film ... or coat glass plates
or ....

there is still lots of fun to have without a 35mm camera ...
its gonna be 1890 all over again

CGW · Jun 22, 2011

ZZZzzz. This truly is old news. I see used mass-market film cameras sold out of bins in Toronto camera stores. At the current rate of decline in film use/production, I'd recommend enjoying it while you can.

2F/2F · Jun 22, 2011

Looking into the future, I am more worried about the availability of repair people who really know what they are doing with older cameras. They are already scarce, and most of the "experts" are already elderly, or will be before long. I am not worried about whether or not brand new film cameras are made. I wouldn't want 99 percent of the new film cameras made anyhow, nor would I pay what they cost – not with the used market the way it is.

RPippin · Jun 22, 2011

Who cares if nobody makes any new film based cameras anymore? I can already hear the teeth nashing, clothes tearing, hand wringing and all the wailing and moaning and I haven't even posted this yet. There is a huge surplus of used 35mm, medium format and large format stuff floating around, a lot of which can't even be given away, for Gods sake. The stuff last forever, can still be repaired, and let's not even go down the "green" road here. I refuse to live in fear of a future that's not even here yet. "I feared a fear and it came upon me" makes life a bit to dreary for me. Photography for me is about creative expression. I have no idea where this might take me in 10 or 20 years. For all I know I might be coating glass plates and hand coating paper. What do we do if the whole damn economy just bottom outs? What if manufactures are forced to stop making digital stuff because of enviromental constraints, and people just don't have the money to keep buying constantly depreciating assets? Sorry for the rant, but it fries my shorts when we get to worried about something we fear for the future, and react to it as if it is already the reality today. Live for the moment, I say. My wife doesn't agree with me, but thats her...

Steve Smith · Jun 22, 2011

2F/2F said:
Looking into the future, I am more worried about the availability of repair people who really know what they are doing with older cameras.

I am a firm believer in the idea that if something could be done in the past then it can be done now or in the future. So there is no reason why a mechanically minded person in the future could not look at a mechanical camera, work out how it works (or should work) and be able to repair it.

The difficulty might be in finding such a person to work on your camera if you can't do it yourself.

Oh yes, and I second everything that RPippin wrote above.

Steve.

anm · Jun 22, 2011

I'm actually positive about the future of film photography, here in the UK it is alive and very well, I'm not predicting doom and gloom, and where there's a gap in the market someone will always fill it.

Just a discussion starter and a thought on the fact that used film cameras will become scarcer over time, especially in the consumer, mass produced, plastic bracket that I'm enjoying at the moment, that's all....

Aristophanes · Jun 22, 2011

It's a pretty basic equation:

In order to reinvest (tool and die) for film production, that capital investment needs to see the same reinvestment on camera production.

If that equation breaks, then all the buckets of free 35mm/120/4x5 cameras in the world will not create a capital reinvestment scenario. Film photography has always been an economic symbiosis; never discrete.

I doubt all the world's garage shop tinkerers combined could even muster enough $ to keep APUG going much less keep a substrate micro-factory going.

eclarke · Jun 22, 2011

anm said:
I'm 'only' 37. I know there are tank like indestructable things that will be around forever, and there are cheap plastic things still being made, but the middle ground of affordable, good quality cameras seems to be the weak point, maybe there's an opportunity there for a camera manufacturer to step in.

If you take good care of it, it will last a long time. You don't have to beat it up, good craftsmen use their tools every day but don't abuse them...EC

John Hermanson · Jun 22, 2011

LCDs have a life span. I wonder if ccd, cmos etc. can just suddenly stop working because of their age, or develop thousands of dead pixels. I read somewhere about a digital SLR with a fixed semi-silvered mirror. Canon did that in 35mm with the Pellix and pretty much all of those are unusable because the mirrors aged and the coatings went bad. Parts for digital cameras are very expensive, available for a narrow time window AND in many cases, replacing some parts requires proprietary software from the manufacturer (which many won't make available) to set the camera up. John

Alan Johnson · Jun 22, 2011

I believe Phenix still make 35mm cameras.

http://www.chine-taiwan.com/phenixoptics.htm

They have an outlet in the UK, may not have one in the US as they seem to be little known.

2F/2F · Jun 22, 2011

Steve Smith said:
The difficulty might be in finding such a person to work on your camera if you can't do it yourself.

Yes; I said was was worried about the availability of such people, not that it would be impossible for them to exist.

darinwc · Jun 22, 2011

anm said:
I may be wrong, but other than Leica, Voightlander and Lomo, there are no film camera manufacturs out there, certainly none mass produced.

BS

You forgot Fuji, Cosina, Chamonix, Shen Hao, Linhof, Holga, Fotoman, arca-swiss, ebony, kb canham, tachihara, toyo, cambo, horseman, sinar.

I'm not sure about Mamiya, Hasselblad, Rollei..

There is still a market for film cameras.

zenrhino · Jun 22, 2011

Correct

Correct, indeed.

This is exactly why I keep my m42 Spotmatic (and its beautiful glass) and bought a Hasselblad. The only other camera I'd even consider buying would be a Leica MP.

The next camera I buy? It's going to be my last.

holmburgers · Jun 22, 2011

There is a guy in France (I believe) that has made his own rangefinder camera from SCRATCH, and I think he's working on an SLR.

If someone can find that link, please post it. I'll look for it in the meantime...

Point is, I'd worry more about the availability of film than cameras.

edit: ok, that wasn't hard... http://www.collection-appareils.fr/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9185&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=175#p93454 and it actually isn't an RF. Still...

The end of film cameras

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