The elitist print exchange?

gr82bart · Mar 11, 2006

I have had several people tell me they don't particpate in the print exchanges because they feel the level of quality is too low for their standards. Hence, the question...

So would people particpate in a print exchange where there would be a minimum level of acceptable quality for materials? Say....

fibre based paper
mounted on archival board
8ply acid free cotton rag mat

And, add to that an acceptable print quality as well...that is, no spilled coffee or throw aways, but print processing as if your life depended on it?

Who's in?

Regards, Art.

Nige · Mar 11, 2006

nope, not me... the whole concept makes me laugh! I've seen some stuff I wouldn't let my dog crap on in galleries, is that a guide?

argus · Mar 11, 2006

An archivally mounted fibre print is no guarantee for a good image.

G

John Bartley · Mar 11, 2006

I voted "no", but not because I don't like the idea. I participated in one group print exchange just when I was starting LF photographyand the idea was that I would get to see what I should be aiming for. I found out very quickly that there are folks who operate in a whole different strata. Someday I will participate again. For now .... no ... not until my photography improves drastically.

cheers

Andy K · Mar 11, 2006

I also voted no. I am still learning the art/craft of enlarging. I only just consider myself able enough to make postcards.

df cardwell · Mar 11, 2006

Send a picture to someone whose (work) (opinion) you (admire) (respect),
no need to make it a club.

mikeg · Mar 11, 2006

Difficult one. It's interesting to note that in the print exchanges the 2 people who have never sent me a print have been professionals. Was my print that bad that it didn't warrant a reply?

Mike

jd callow · Mar 11, 2006

This should be treated like any 'gift' giving -- have a desire to give and be grateful about what you receive.

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 11, 2006

I do the print exchanges mainly for the challenge of keeping myself printing for a critical audience. If I get great prints in return--and I often do--that's a bonus.

Alex Hawley · Mar 11, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
I do the print exchanges mainly for the challenge of keeping myself printing for a critical audience. If I get great prints in return--and I often do--that's a bonus.

Pretty much echo what David said. I participated in the first four print exchanges and always got excellent prints. Since then I've mostly traded with individuals.

My other reason for voting "No" in the poll is the 8-ply matt. No way, Jose'. Too expensive, too hard to cut. A very elitist requirement.

Ole · Mar 11, 2006

If anyone who has received a print from me would have preferred it mounted, that would indicate they think it's worth mounting. I'm not going to do it - I don't mount.

I have received prints in the exchanges which I have had mounted, matted and framed, and I have received prints which reside in the ever growing stack in the spare room. Unmounted prints take up so much less space in the stack

jtsatterlee · Mar 11, 2006

I voted no, because I do not think the items listed will improve the quality of the work. (yes i prefer FB over RC, but that is another debate isnt it?)

One of my biggest issues with print exchanges, and I have been involved in (here and other places) is the respect (or lack of) people give there own work:
- poorly packaged so it arrives damaged
- damaged somewhere in process and still sent (bent, wrinkled or even poorly processed)
- and my biggest issue - not even spotted

If I like an image I can mount it myself, there is no need for the print maker to do that, perhaps the image is excellent, but just not my taste. But sending out prints that are not even finished, with dust marks all over them is another thing.

Perhaps the question is how to teach the difference between a work print and a finished print?

df cardwell · Mar 11, 2006

Please note there is an ancient distinction between the use of the word "PICTURE" vs "PRINT".

Strand and Weston made pictures, the emphasis on the "image they made", not the materials they used to make them from nor the materials on which they were mounted or presented.

For those working in the Pictorialist tradition, for whom Presentation and Materials are equally ( or more ) important to " the image", the word Print is traditionally used, seeking to link a photograph's importance to a limited edition Lithograph, serigraph, or some other " -graph" appropriate to the rare atmosphere of their salon. And we all know that a "gelatin silver print" is more valuable than a "picture".

As for Image, while it can be a little toney in use, it simply implies "less then the subject".
.

Marc Leest · Mar 11, 2006

I voted yes, beacause presentation is almost as important as the print itself.
The only limitation, is one print however.

M.

Dave Miller · Mar 11, 2006

Who decides who participates, or more importantly; doesn’t?
Whoever was idiot enough to suggest this crackpot idea should restrict their print exchanges to themselves, using only their own prints. That way they won’t risk being offended by receiving an inferior picture, or more to the point perhaps, one that illustrates the short comings in their own work.
I thought this exchange thing was about participation, learning, teaching, friendship, and just plain old fashioned fun.
Elitism is the basis of all human misery. It sucks and doesn’t belong on this forum.

By the way, I voted against.

gr82bart · Mar 11, 2006

Dave Miller said:
Whoever was idiot enough to suggest this crackpot idea should restrict their print exchanges to themselves, using only their own prints.

So far that's what they're doing. They are the ones not participating and when I asked them why? This 'quality' thing was the answer I got. There are many, many more than what the poll is indicating so far. It's the reason for me starting this thread.

Regards, Art.

avandesande · Mar 11, 2006

"I don't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member"--was that groucho marx?

jd callow · Mar 11, 2006

What Dave said...

Claire Senft · Mar 11, 2006

I want to commend Nige for having high standards. Any dog worth owning should have a platinum poopy bag.

Dave Miller · Mar 11, 2006

What Mrcallow said.

jd callow · Mar 11, 2006

ditto

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 11, 2006

One interesting effect of the print exchanges is that people get to see what other people's work is like and how they present it, and that tends to raise standards.

Sometimes, I think, it's meant holding up the Traveling Portfolio, because some member or other has felt that their work didn't measure up and wanted to produce a better print than they've ever made before sending it on. On the one hand that inconveniences the whole group, because the portfolio is delayed, but on the other hand, if the person who hangs on to the portfolio for two months becomes a better printer for it, well, isn't that part of the purpose of the whole thing?

So to those who won't participate, because they feel that their work is superior to the work they will receive in return, I would say--

It is always a challenge to improve upon one's own work, and the print exchanges are an opportunity to do so, regardless of the prints one receives in exchange.

If your work really is that superior, then show some generosity of spirit by sharing your work as Les McLean, Joe Lipka, Clay Harmon, and many other fine printers have done here in the exchanges, and maybe others will learn something from your experience.

SteveH · Mar 11, 2006

Well....
I obviously vote 'no'. While I do agree that an excellent presentation will add to an excellent print, you still need an excellent print first. Someone put it best when they said "...you cannot polish a turd.". This idea has had too many requirements based upon everything BUT the print itself. To me, my idea of an 'elitist' print exchange would go something like this:

#1 - The print, that when you look at all your others, you honestly feel is best
#2 - An image that you learned something as you were creating it
#3 - An image, that once you were done, you dug it back out a couple of times just to look at it
#4 - An image that you believe will makes others feel as you do when you view it

Basically...An image of yours that you feel is above all of the other images you have made. After all, it IS about the photo....Right ? Now, I am not saying that you all don't do this now - for I don't know. All I am saying, is that if this were my parade, that is how I would do it.

Regards,

Rlibersky · Mar 11, 2006

jtsatterlee said:
One of my biggest issues with print exchanges, and I have been involved in (here and other places) is the respect (or lack of) people give there own work:
- poorly packaged so it arrives damaged
- damaged somewhere in process and still sent (bent, wrinkled or even poorly processed)
- and my biggest issue - not even spotted

If I like an image I can mount it myself, there is no need for the print maker to do that, perhaps the image is excellent, but just not my taste. But sending out prints that are not even finished, with dust marks all over them is another thing.

Perhaps the question is how to teach the difference between a work print and a finished print?

I also will voted no but think this statement should be looked at. I have recieved many prints that would be worthy of hanging if the printerhad taked the time to spot them. Others look like they've been crammed into a bag in rage. Just my 2 cents.

Randy

Ole · Mar 11, 2006

"Rage" is usually in the post. "In haste" is more descriptive of my contributions...

And I'm a lousy spotter. So lousy that I prefer to making the print over again - and again and again and again until the few remaining dust specs are unobtrusive enough to be overlooked without examination with a 10x loupe...

The elitist print exchange?

Would you participate in an Elite Print Exchange?

Yes

No

gr82bart

Nige

argus

John Bartley

Andy K

df cardwell

mikeg

jd callow

Moderator

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Alex Hawley

Ole

Moderator

jtsatterlee

df cardwell

Marc Leest

Dave Miller

gr82bart

avandesande

jd callow

Moderator

Claire Senft

Dave Miller

jd callow

Moderator

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

SteveH

Rlibersky

Ole

Moderator

The elitist print exchange?

Would you participate in an Elite Print Exchange?

Yes

No

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

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