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The Death of Digital Photography as We Know It

faberryman said:
Nikon currently offers the F6 and F10 film cameras. I doubt they are flying off the shelves.
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OK, how about something a little more middle of the road? F6 is a professional tool and the FM10 is a piece of crap and manual focus... The reason they aren't flying off the shelves is their limited market.
 
My wife dragged me shopping to our local city, I think the London Camera Exchange has been there since before the Romans left the Britain

I think what's really happening is Digital cameras at the high end have far too high a spec compared to what the masses need, your average user won't see any difference with a 6mp camera compared to an 18/20 or higher so why upgrade. So the market for the top end is shrinking and the prices are really rising fast.

An analogy would be pre WWI and particularly pre 1900 when wood and brass plate cameras ruled the roost, then the mass market switched to roll film cameras. The next big change was the late 20's but particularly the 1930's when 35mm came along. Then it was 126 the repackaged 828 and the Instamatic.

But we didn't lose LF. or 120 the market keeps evolving.

IAn
 
I read the article, after I made my post here. I feel the author is off base in regards to how digital cameras are progressing or not. I suggest that improvements are being made, at least on the pro level.

Instant film/images are cool and that's where the great growth appears to be. Get me some 665 Polaroid, please.
 
BMbikerider said:
... in England there is hardly a High Street that has a mini lab to drop your films into.
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I'm surprised. I live in medium sized town. I have a pro lab and a Snappy Snaps (a high st chain) in the town.

There are many mail-out labs to be found with a web search.
 
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£100 buys you a used but mint mechanical SLR and lens. You couldn't build and bring to market a new equivalent camera for £200 or even £300 retail now, so it's a non-starter.

You could problaby make a plastic compact camera like a Yashica T4 and do ok.
 
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People are still not printing much though. For me this has been the big revelation with my move to analog, I have my darkroom for B&W and a projector for colour slide. Its not about the film its what you do with it, and this particular aspect is where digital as an ecosystem has spectacularly failed in the non pro market for various reasons.
 

Well if you shoot 250 JPEGS in one afternoon on your P&S who's gonna cull it for you? Printing is still an expense, a decent 4x6 runs at about .30 multiply that by 250 and it rolls up quick. I shoot b&w because after everything printing in a darkroom is still cheaper and has far nicer results.
 
mynewcolour said:
I'm surprised. I live in medium sized town. I have a pro lab and a Snappy Snaps (a high st chain) in the town.

There are many mail-out labs to be found with a web search.
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There's not a single film lab in the state of Hawaii (pop ~1.5 mil). So it's USPS Priority Mail or FedEx for us non-darkroom shooters.
 

How is it possible that a camera manufacturer could compete with the second-hand market at this point? Who can make a 6x9 folder, with a body made of metal and a glass lens for less than $30, which is a common price you'd find on eBay? You can buy a truckload of plastic SLRs from the 80s each for less than the price of the odd batteries some of them take. I know of one company that still manufacturers film cameras and whenever I go to their website, their all plastic cameras are more than I would be willing to pay, and quite a bit more than many of the nice cameras I can buy second-hand.
 

Lomography? It is all started with camera which was almost at the end of production and not so available. And for sometime they were selling old stock before moving to China. Once it was moved to China for production it lost its popularity and they have to introduce some cheaper and junkier cameras to be able to run their business profitable. But why nobody wants to knock-off Lomogaphy cameras? Simply because here is no market for primitive film cameras knock-offs. And because buying of Lomography camera is something more than just buying. They have clubs all over the world now.

Same with Leica which is making only few film cameras per year. It is iconic camera and you are treated by Leica very special way. You are becoming not only Leica owner, but also club, or clan member.

Why Cosina crapped out recently from film RF market? Simply because they can't make cameras like this cheap, but here is Leica used cameras at the similar price and huge cult attached, plus - SERVICE not only on factory, but from independent technicians.

Your point is only single dot. You have to connect many dots and this is what you are missing. Cosina has seized production of film cameras because it is not enough anymore just to make film camera and sell it trough retail. It has to be supported, it has to have cult status and club like organizations for fans of this camera.

Plus it is problem with cost of manufacturing. Japanese can't compete with their film cameras made not so long time ago. Here is no point in buying of $200 new SLR if same is available for $40 in like new condition and will lasts until owner is getting rid of it and even after. And Chinese aren't capable yet of making something mechanically solid and precise. One thing is making plastic Lomogaphy cameras and another thing is SLR. Even lenses they make. Ugly crap.
 
While there are signs of the digital camera market weakening, the demise of digital cameras is premature.
 
Definitely agree on the relationship between the photographer and the company and its brand. I have to say it does add a lot of value to know that your Leica could go back to the factory for repairs and upgrades, or that there is a parts support chain kept going. Hopefully DHW will continue the same with Rollei, its nice to know for example that they can still supply new the 6008 integral 2 body, all the lenses and a large system of other parts and accessories. Is this a German/European thing? I don't know but it seems really important to me to the long term success of analog.
 
There's a space opening up for the manufacture of a new film camera, but I don't think we're quite there yet. If prices on the used market keep going up and the stock of functional used cameras on the market declines, there's an opportunity to manufacture a relatively simple, solidly built mechanical film camera somewhere in the $300-400 price range that can use an existing lens mount. Leica offers the closest product to this now at ten times that price, but a firm with a different business strategy could probably make it work. Maybe design the thing to last 500 years and advertise it as an effort to keep the medium alive into the future.

I shot a roll last week through an 88-year old camera and the results were pretty good. I don't think there will be many functional cameras from the 1990's 60 years from now.
 
Trail Images said:
Many analog users I knew shifted to digital with resulting analog product losses and escalating costs. They will never return IMO.....
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Yeah, old people. It's not about them anymore.

The future is with young people discovering film.

"It may sound strange to describe film as “something new,” but a 2015 survey by UK manufacturer Ilford Photo found that 30 percent of film users were under 35 years old, and 60 percent had only started using the medium in the last five years. "

The title of the story is miss-leading though. Digital photography is getting more and more popular every waking moment. The preferred tool of use for it is the smart phone. It is dedicated digital cameras which are dying off.
 
Brady Eklund said:
If prices on the used market keep going up and the stock of functional used cameras on the market declines...
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When is this going to happen? The glut of used film cameras is huge. I have a weakness of spending time on ebay and craiglist everyday, whether I need to or not..

Just picked up a like new Nikon Em for $15. Why? Because a cocktail in LA now costs more than that! Plus it is the perfect bookend for my F6. (The incorrect bookend answer is the Nikon F). Speaking of, Nikon Fs are under $100. Nikkormats are under $50, often waaaay under that. Nikon F100s/F2s/F4s are under $200! Nikon F5s can be found in the $200=$250 mark!
If anything, the Leica M3s/M4s etc are cheaper now than they were 5 years ago when I first started looking.
 

There will still be a glut of old, tired, used, broken old equipment... My feeling is that the under 30 year old generation wants new equipment. There is a big market there.
 
The title of the PP article is "The Death of Digital Photography as We Know It"

While I agree with THAT statement (DSLR sales have been dropping because of the great cameras in hand-held devices). I do NOT agree that it means analog photography is going to make a comeback (with the exception of instant photography that offers the best of both worlds).
 
farmersteve said:
There will still be a glut of old, tired, used, broken old equipment... My feeling is that the under 30 year old generation wants new equipment. There is a big market there.
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Quantitatively, how big is big, and at what price point(s)?
 
farmersteve said:
My feeling is that the under 30 year old generation wants new equipment.
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Not one 20-something shooter I know wants to shell out for new film equipment. Some have inherited gear from a family member and want to keep it going, like the idea it is connected the family past. It's not about the money either, it is largely about being connected to the true golden age of photography, something many lament they missed having been born into digital everything.

A few are even into restoration, one young woman replaces the leatherette with fine woods.
 
farmersteve said:
There will still be a glut of old, tired, used, broken old equipment... My feeling is that the under 30 year old generation wants new equipment. There is a big market there.
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Nope

All the kids I've seen want the old vintage gear. "Real" cameras. The opposite of digital cameras and iphones. It's part of the thrill. On a recent soujourn in LA I saw kids (ok peeps under 30) with Nikkormats, SRT 101s, AE-1, a Yashicamat 124-G and some type of Canon rangefinder.
What is interesting is I have never seen the consumer AF SLRs being used. The stuff just before DSLRs showed up. No-one from the new generation of film photogs wants that.
 

Exactly! And funny you mentioned the recovering. I have seen quite a few cameras with DIY jobs - one even where the girl recovered her Canon with denim. And it akshully looked great with the chrome.
 
I would think a new, pro-grade film camera system, the equal to the Nikon F or similar system, would be amazingly expensive and out of the reach of most of us.
 
farmersteve said:
There will still be a glut of old, tired, used, broken old equipment... My feeling is that the under 30 year old generation wants new equipment. There is a big market there.
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If this is a market niche to be filled, someone will do it, because all of the major camera companies are selling fewer digital cameras every year. The SLR camera from five years ago that can shoot crazy high ISO and produce a very clean 25MP file is still perfectly usable. Point and shoot is now your iPhone.

The reality is that most people don't care about the HOW, they just want to make a picture. Photographers tend to be very process-oriented, this film, that lens, Amidol, pyro, etc. Regular people just want a dang picture, they don't care how it happens.

I get asked quite regularly "what kind of digital camera should I buy for family photos and vacations?" I always say "do you want to carry around a DSLR all the time? If not, just use your phone."
 
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You should see the equipment I see 20 somethings buying on the Facebook page... I can't even afford that stuff.
 
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