The Cult of Leica

removed account4 · Mar 14, 2018

are you sure there was no invisible gas at the gallery space or in your darkroom, i was in one
of those galleries with invisible gas, you could hear it hissing but couldnt' see anything. there was
an equisite collection of hummels but instead of being like 4" tall they were like 6 feet ! the kittens were HUGE!
to the best of my knowledge miniature can only produce miniature unless something else happens.
someone told me once of a chihuahua that mated with a great dane .. the result was interesting. very large
hairless great dane body and head, small legs and really shaky...
almost as interesting as the shiu tzu and boxer mix kind of a brown hot mess of a dog !
your viewing distance for the large prints is bigger than 5" and from a non german camera ?!
how could that be. don't tell me the oly was able to turn rainy days into sunny ones too !

Ai Print · Mar 14, 2018

Lol! Man this is funny stuff, you always get an A in my book for helping us all to not take our selves so seriously.

I have seen 16x20 and larger silver printed of HCB, Eugene Richards and Nachtwey that were awesome, just such amazing presence, so immersive.

I made a bunch of 11x14’s shot on 35mm TMY2 pushed to 800 shot in my Leica of the last Look3 Festival and they came out beautiful.

It has taken many years and a fair bit of investment to gather all the gear I have now and I enjoy all of it equally. Leica is really satisfying gear to use and I love the results, what more does one need to say?

jnanian said:
not sarcastic at all. leica has special optics that make sunshine ( sonnenscheinmaschine )
and if somene complains about anything its not cause they don't want it, its because of the price tag.
i almost complained about a BAT sandwich i had today it cost $32.50, the chips were free. i pony'd up the cash
and ate it as slowly as i could. it was made with locally sourced avacodes,
local bacon artison arugula on ritz crackers. the potato chips were home made. its just money,
my kids just made me another batch of kool aid to guzzle ...

but the problem with a leica is no matter the film, no matter the processing or the care taken exposing &c
you really can't enlarge the negative past 5x7 because 35mm doesn't hold up past 5x7 ( unless you have
a leitz enlarger maybe a little bigger ) . at least with a larger negative, 5x7, or 4x5 for example,
you can enlarge to a larger size before it gives up, and even larger size negatives, well they don't quit.
not sure what hot air you read about LF .. its like anything some of it is perfectly true, some of it is nonsense.
( i read a few weeks ago if you use the lorium lenses on the leica iiik it cures pattern baldness )
kind of like any sort of hype no matter the format or country of origin of the camera. and the beauty of all of this stuff
is that a camera is just a box with a light trap. some people are able to make astounding images from the lowest things on
the totem pole and by the grace of athena others are able to make pure garbage with the most expensive gear on the planet,
and in the end, none of it matters because whoever it was using the toilet paper roll had as much fun as the person using the 3.2million dollar leica,
or 16x20 ebony with the 54,000.00 schneider xxl lens kit,
what really matters isn't the camera or lens anyways, its the shoes you are wearing while making the photographs.

Ai Print · Mar 14, 2018

jim10219 said:
I To me, a Leica is a status symbol and a toy.

Really? Going to go that far off into small joystick land huh?

I have a friend who made his mark in the photo history books with a Leica M2 and Nikon F around his neck in Vietnam. He has won Pulitzer’s, was White House Press photographer in two administrations....you know, a photographer’s photographer.

Large format is great, I have two cameras, 9 lenses, 6x12 backs etc. But I would never call any camera a toy or status symbol.

By the way, got any work to show? Because it matters.

BradS · Mar 14, 2018

Ko.Fe. said:
...I just printed on much larger than 8x10 from negatives taken by Oly XA.....

so apparently, a $80 Olympus XA is at least as capable as a $1600 Leica. The plastic fantastic Olympus is smaller, lighter too....

removed account4 · Mar 14, 2018

Ai Print said:
By the way, got any work to show? Because it matters.

on a serious note, i don't really think work produced with any camera matters that much at all. most of photography is having a good time
and if it didn't produce any negatives or prints it really doesn't matter. not everyone does photogrpahy for $ but to unwind and stay sane.
work made and money made is nice, but not really too important .. and if someone likes leicas good for them. if they don't ..
its just a camera ...

Ai Print · Mar 14, 2018

Out of all the forums I have frequented since starting with Photo.net in 1998, this one has the least amount of fans of the Leica brand that I know of. And you know, that is ok.

But what is not OK is the completely baseless trashing the brand takes on this site on a regular basis. And it does not seem what facts anyone brings to the table, the legacy, the iconic shooters who made their images with the cameras.

None of it matters, all that seems to matter is that someone can call a phenomenal brand of camera that I use such as Leica a toy and status symbol and that is supposed to f_cking be OK!

Its NOT ok! I don’t go around claiming any camera is junk, a toy, a status symbol, NONE of that. There is no value in bashing a camera brand so I can only surmise that if that is what people do on here then it truly is gear that matters more to them than actual photography. Because if truly enjoying photographs mattered then a NORMAL person would not even think to bash a brand of camera. So yeah, if you call my tools toys, you had better put up or shut up!

fiddle · Mar 14, 2018

Oh my..

Dinesh · Mar 14, 2018

I have an M6 with a 35 as well, it's a pretty rugged piece of kit. Whenever there is an issue it is always due to user error.

If fact most of my cameras suffer from user error!

Theo Sulphate · Mar 14, 2018

jim10219 said:
To me, a Leica is a status symbol and a toy. To use the car anology, they are like a go-cart. And they may be the best go-cart ever made, but they’re still just a go-cart. A very expensive go-cart. ...

Lotus Elise.

removed account4 · Mar 14, 2018

Ai Print said:
Out of all the forums I have frequented since starting with Photo.net in 1998, this one has the least amount of fans of the Leica brand that I know of. And you know, that is ok.

But what is not OK is the completely baseless trashing the brand takes on this site on a regular basis. And it does not seem what facts anyone brings to the table, the legacy, the iconic shooters who made their images with the cameras.

None of it matters, all that seems to matter is that someone can call a phenomenal brand of camera that I use such as Leica a toy and status symbol and that is supposed to f_cking be OK!

Its NOT ok! I don’t go around claiming any camera is junk, a toy, a status symbol, NONE of that. There is no value in bashing a camera brand so I can only surmise that if that is what people do on here then it truly is gear that matters more to them than actual photography. Because if truly enjoying photographs mattered then a NORMAL person would not even think to bash a brand of camera. So yeah, if you call my tools toys, you had better put up or shut up!

Ai Print
it is just a camera, just like a holga. no one is dismissing any of the great things done with it,
great some top shelf people have used it, like the holga .. big deal
it doesn't make it any less of a camera.
so what some folks look at it like a toy, a play thing, a status symbol .. big deal.
do you know how many dentists and drs and lawyers ( according to a friend who worked at a boutique shop )
have leicas on a shelf and never use it who cares. you enjoy yours, great, you use yours to make $ great !
plenty of people here and elsewhere trash talk just about everything - camera makers, film makers, paper makers
well known and lesser known photographers, genres of photography, processing styles, printing styles,
people who use a lab and not their own darkroom, people who shoot color, and forget about the D-thing
that's only for "proctologists" some people say .. who cares its all a way to legitimize and make relevant and sometimes
bull$4¡te and puffery. if i got a nickle for every time i was razzed for using expired or trash ready product id be rich
( or at least able to afford another bacon avacado arrugala on ritz cracker sandwich ! )
just do your thing .. who cares if you are using a so called toy .. its the real deal to you, shouldn't that be all that matters ?

Gerald C Koch · Mar 14, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
A kiss is much, much better than any Leica (and I have quite a few).

A fine revolver, of which I have many, is more fun than any Leica.

I haven't experienced the psychoanalyst's couch.

Interesting article, though.

"You must remember this
A kiss is still a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by"

Read more: Louis Armstrong - As Time Goes By (A Kiss Is Just A Kiss) Lyrics | MetroLyrics

Arklatexian · Mar 15, 2018

chip j said:
The SP was supposed to be the best-built camera That Nikon ever made. Any comments on this??

I owned one once, needed money, sold it. It was immediately stolen from the person I sold it to which means the thieves knew something I didn't know and that was how much it was going up in value in the future. Actually, it probably got traded for a bottle of cheap wine.........Regards!

Arklatexian · Mar 15, 2018

Ai Print said:
Out of all the forums I have frequented since starting with Photo.net in 1998, this one has the least amount of fans of the Leica brand that I know of. And you know, that is ok.

But what is not OK is the completely baseless trashing the brand takes on this site on a regular basis. And it does not seem what facts anyone brings to the table, the legacy, the iconic shooters who made their images with the cameras.

None of it matters, all that seems to matter is that someone can call a phenomenal brand of camera that I use such as Leica a toy and status symbol and that is supposed to f_cking be OK!

Its NOT ok! I don’t go around claiming any camera is junk, a toy, a status symbol, NONE of that. There is no value in bashing a camera brand so I can only surmise that if that is what people do on here then it truly is gear that matters more to them than actual photography. Because if truly enjoying photographs mattered then a NORMAL person would not even think to bash a brand of camera. So yeah, if you call my tools toys, you had better put up or shut up!

It is probably pretty difficult to turn envy into a fact so cut them a little slack......Regards!.....Besides every political party and, it seems, hobby, disolves into two groups: THEM and US!

summicron1 · Mar 15, 2018

wow, this went south in a hurry.

As to an Olympus XA being as good as a Leica -- the image may be, the camera is not. One is plastic with gears that wear out. The other is metal that still work just fine 50 years on.

Sure there's some Leica snobbery -- and sadly, of late, the cameras are more jewelry for movie stars than actual working professional cameras, but so what? I don't buy those. I use a 60 year old M3 and a 50 year old M4 and some slightly newer SLRs becasue they're lovely machines that do the job I want better than comparable Nikon and Canon products.

And they're cooler.

chip j · Mar 15, 2018

I guess that when home scanners & printers outresolve Leica lenses that'll be the end of this kind of "talk".

Theo Sulphate · Mar 15, 2018

chip j said:
I guess that when home scanners & printers outresolve Leica lenses that'll be the end of this kind of "talk".

Well, it will be - but only among those people whose concept of photography is an album or wall full of test charts.

Ultimately, the value of a Leica, or any other camera are the opportunities and images that camera enables its owner to produce.

Richard Man · Mar 15, 2018

This thread is so funny... so many self-identified tricksters goading Leica people because it's "funny". Ha ha. Don't quit your dayjobs.

blockend · Mar 15, 2018

Richard Man said:
Have you seen HCB images blown up to 20x24? I have. Have you seen Robert Frank's? I have. Have you blown up your own neg to 16x20 in the darkroom? I have. Have you scanned and print 20x30? I have...

You can do that with any quality 35mm lens. Leica made nice cameras, no question, but the fact remains professional users demanded something that ended up looking like a Canon EOS1 or a Nikon F5. The only reason to buy a digital Leica is because you own a sufficient number of valuable lenses to make the enterprise worthwhile.

Old Leicas are disproportionally owned by camera sniffers, for whom photography is a form of re-enactment. They are entitled to their pleasure for the same reason people who carry classic cars on a low-loader are entitled to theirs, but it has nothing to do with motoring or photography. I've owned Leicas so my opinions aren't fuelled by ignorance or envy. If you can afford one try one, just don't expect your photographs to get any better. As better photographs are the point of photography, your time and money may prove better spent elsewhere.

removed account4 · Mar 15, 2018

Richard Man said:
This thread is so funny... so many self-identified tricksters goading Leica people because it's "funny". Ha ha. Don't quit your dayjobs.

hello richard man
maybe you are refering ot me ?
nah, not goading..
i have a leica with a few lenses, i never memorized the serial #s.
i just use them and don't equate the quality of the work i produce
with the cameras used or the people who might have ( or still ) use
these cameras / lenses. don't get me wrong, sure they are nice, well made
cla'd by mr ye IDK 15-17 years ago .. and i enjoy making 11x14 prints.
the great works of hcb or gw or cc or anyone else using a leica
have nothing to do with what i make, why should i equate my personal
or professional work i make with a camera with what someone else has
made with the same or similar camera, i don't really get it.
not sure why a hobbyist would quite their day job, cause they aren't using a leica ?

Dali · Mar 15, 2018

A Leica cult? Maybe.. but nobody forces anyone to be part of it.

Apart from the cult aspect, you can use Leica gear without losing your critical mind. Read the Leicaphilia blog (see post #1) and you will see what I mean.

zanxion72 · Mar 15, 2018

Funny how many compare the XA with Leica. Is the Zuiko on par with a Summicron?
I don't think so.

blockend · Mar 15, 2018

zanxion72 said:
Funny how many compare the XA with Leica. Is the Zuiko on par with a Summicron?
I don't think so.

IIRC the XA series are retro-focusing designs, meaning the camera fits into a pocket. Were there any collapsible Leica lenses apart from 50mm? Clearly the Zuiko is the superior design if you want a pocket camera.

film_man · Mar 15, 2018

$5k for a body. Well the M6 was 5k when it came out 30 years ago. That's $160/year if you bought one and kept it and the price keeps dropping. Today you can buy that M6 and sell a year later for effectively was it is 0 in rent. You could probably make a small profit if you're careful.

Thinking about it, given that the price of an M6 seems to be about 1k nowadays you could say it only ever cost you 4k. Over 30 years that's $130/year.

Ste_S · Mar 15, 2018

I like Leica. It channels all the collectors towards one brand, keeping the majority of other stuff relatively cheap for those that use cameras to take photographs rather than kept as a status symbol

guangong · Mar 15, 2018

Thank God that a Leica M or Nikon F was treated as jewelry in the 70s and 80s, and be thankful for all those MDs, DDSs and liars (oops! Lawyers) who never used their cameras, otherwise where would we at APUG find a generous supply of used cameras for purchase.
Getting back to the topic of why a Leica. I also carve marble. I use carbide tipped chisels, which are very expensive. They can be much, much more expensive than steel chisels because while they cut better they are more fragile and require more skill. On the other hand, used properly they last indefinitely. The same can be said of sable water color brushes. The better brushes are easier to use but they require greater care.
I have a friend who spent many thousands on some wood chisels. He does inlaid wood mosaics. The cheapest HomeDepot wood chisel would be a waste for me but his expensive hand made chisels are just what he needs.
The same can be said about cameras.

The Cult of Leica

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