The commitment to Analog, and APUG

In view of Brooks Jensen’s recent question to this Forum it’s perhaps time to rethink the way we approach the Digital / Analog dilemma.

We can’t fight the tides of change but we can educate and we must.

The major problem is our materials are no longer on the shelves in many “High Street” photo stores which leads the masses to think they’ve gone. In the town I live in B&W paper and chemicals are in the store room, and have been for 4 or 5 years.

What we must do is show teenagers and young people what alternatives are available to digital, and each and every one of us should make a positive effort.to encourage and nurture new practitioners

I am doing just that and my nephew and one niece are now working in B&W, my niece in LF & wanting to use my 10x8  Now it’s important to say they approached me there was no coercion.

If we want conventional materials to survive we must ensure a constant new intake of young photographer’s wanting to try using analog imaging.

We need to make a positive effort to redress the balance

Ian

Contact Bostick and Sullivan and ask about their new foundation to help educate the public and new generations about photography and historic processes.

It's not just the average consumer. I keep on hearing from colleagues in aerial archaeology variations on the theme of "Well, I've had to go digital now they've discontinued 220 Tri-X". I have no idea how that myth got going.

David.

Woolliscroft said:

"Well, I've had to go digital now they've discontinued 220 Tri-X". I have no idea how that myth got going.
David.

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Perhaps it was the way they phrased their application for new digital equipment. I doubt they mentioned other ways of continuing using film. . . . .

Ian

It strikes me that I see a fair amount of new people joining APUG moving away from Digital or adding analogue to their lives.

It's not just analogue, though. I recently heard from a family member: "they still make Black and White film?" The basic attitude being, why would anyone want to do B&W now that color is cheaper?

Matt

I agree. We need to perpetuate the craft and the best, most effective way to do that is through education.

I don't think it is all about film and chemicals however. It seems to me, the digitial revolution started or, was at least enabled by, the disappearance of the Pentax K1000 (i.e. inexpensive, all manual camera) from consumer retail outlets. Overnight, the auto focus, auto exposure, auto pick-your-nose-for-you-so-that-even-a-brain-dead-idot-could-snap-a-photo cameras displaced the all manual 35mm slr at the low end and a generation of potential photographers were lulled further into the coma that is now known as digital photography. There was nothing interesting about photography. There is no challenge. You simply drop the film in the camera, point and click. You drop the roll at the one-hour lab and when it gets back you are further lulled to sleep by the sheer mediocrity of the results. Anybody can do it and get equally shitty results - so, who cares? Only the energetic and the rebelious could muster the energy to scratch further below the surface and discover the true craft. Face it, there is a whole generation of sniveling, fat assed, idiots growing up with no interest in life beyond the next release of thier favorite video game.

As an aside, I noticed that the local Long's Drug store still has a place for Tri-X and Kodachrome 64 on the big film display wall (both spots are empty though ) and there is a bin in the photo isle at Walmart for B&W film (ok, so its not real B&W but....).

Being out in public with the big camera helps. It may be a little eccentric, but in my profession that's allowed, and I don't mind attracting curious questions.

BradS said:

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I don't think it is all about film and chemicals however. It seems to me, the digitial revolution started or, was at least enabled by, the disappearance of the Pentax K1000 (i.e. inexpensive, all manual camera) from consumer retail outlets.

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Right on. I have owned two versions of that camera, and it really was the perfect beginners tool. I still love calculating f-stop and shutter speed, and kids need to exercise the part of the brain that does that kind of practical math. Photography is great science. When kids make the connection between a scientific principle and practical results, they LEARN. With point and shoot, that element is removed.

Not so easy...:-(

I sell photo equipment for a living, and let me tell you, it is only the dedicated ones that even think about buying a film based system. The biggest wrench in the analog push is that people are, by and large, very happy with their digital cameras. Keep in mind that the vast percentage of photographers are snap shooters. The current crop of digicams are more than capable of giving them what they need, and they are cheap enough. Like it or not, the days of the new snapshooter using film are pretty much over. It no longer pays to have any compact camera fixed and digital cameras are just too convenient and cheap for most people to give up. It's the "serious" photogs that we should concentrate on... Only the people in which ultimate image quality is paramount will be interested. That has always been a minority of photographers, but the good news is that they are much more likely to pursue every angle to get the best results.

Around here, most of the "artistic" types in schools still prefer to use film, mostly black and white. I try to keep them interested in moving up in formats, using different developers, etc to maintain interest, and it seems to work fairly well...

Isaac

rhphoto said:

Right on. I have owned two versions of that camera, and it really was the perfect beginners tool. I still love calculating f-stop and shutter speed, and kids need to exercise the part of the brain that does that kind of practical math. Photography is great science. When kids make the connection between a scientific principle and practical results, they LEARN. With point and shoot, that element is removed.

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We do sell several cameras like the K1000, but they are not even the most popular cameras among photo students. Most seem to want one of the entry level autofocus models instead, even if it costs a little more.

Isaac

Portland Photographers Forum uses a portion of it's workshop income to buy used 35mm cameras for high school students. We have the cameras cleaned and then hand them out to those who show promise. We also give lectures and offer photography help in our community.

I guess I still feel this "outreach" is beyond the APUG charter -- personally I like analog materials and in most cases it's good to be online with people who know what I'm talking about when I ask about that pink stuff that takes so long to rinse off from TMax100, rather than the usual internet crowd who are thrilled to tears about their latest purchase. I think this would have been true before digital too BTW -- back before there were affordable digicams, there were still PLENTY of photo-gear-consumers (as opposed to "photographers") who were terribly thrilled about how many FPS they could get from their EOS A2 but whose prints were 4x6 and made at the Jiffymart by a disinterested part-time teenager.

Evangelism of analog is not an issue or a priority for me: that seems like a dissipation of energy that would be better spent making pictures. APUG is a place where people who like using film can share notes (and not get dragged into the "I like it looking grungy" toycam camp), not some sort of third column.

Likewise the whole "aversion" issue -- despite claims of good behavior, I know better than to ask questions or discuss at any length about scanning strategies, for example -- some folks get their feathers in a ball over it despite the fact that it's by definition a film-based process. Such discussions and feuds over perceived censorship are a waste of time.

I like using film because I like it, it is familiar to me and I can feel comfortable in my workflow from idea to print in hand. I think it looks great. I enjoy using a mechanical camera. But it's just one way to make things, one of many that I pursue and will continue to use. Just one of the pack. I'd rather worry about making my own pix than worry that others aren't making theirs my way.

bjorke said:

Evangelism of analog is not an issue or a priority for me: that seems like a dissipation of energy that would be better spent making pictures. APUG is a place where people who like using film can share notes (and not get dragged into the "I like it looking grungy" toycam camp), not some sort of third column.

Likewise the whole "aversion" issue -- despite claims of good behavior, I know better than to ask questions or discuss at any length about scanning strategies, for example -- some folks get their feathers in a ball over it despite the fact that it's by definition a film-based process. Such discussions and feuds over perceived censorship are a waste of time.

I like using film because I like it, it is familiar to me and I can feel comfortable in my workflow from idea to print in hand. I think it looks great. I enjoy using a mechanical camera. But it's just one way to make things, one of many that I pursue and will continue to use. Just one of the pack. I'd rather worry about making my own pix than worry that others aren't making theirs my way.

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AMEN! The best thing anyone can do is make your best pictures and let the results do the talking...

Isaac

David A. Goldfarb said:

Being out in public with the big camera helps. It may be a little eccentric, but in my profession that's allowed, and I don't mind attracting curious questions.

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I'm out and about with my camera(s) all the time. Just this past weekend I was on the front porch in my robe shooting (with the sinar) the 1972 two-tone dodge van parked infront of my house while it rained cats and dogs.

I think people look at me as more of a cautionary tale than an example.

I was approached by one of my co-worker today, thank me for recommending him a very nice digi cam (Because he constantly thinking since I like photography, I must know a lot of things about digital, so, I spent some time on the web, did a little research, came up with a camera fit his needs). He was so happy with the result, said he can't get better result with film. I explained to him why I can get good result with film and why he can't, he listened and believed in me because I showed my picture to him before. What I trying to say is for most people, digital is THE choice, but if you care to show them a thing or two about film, they will make their judgement.

Another thing is all my friend use digicam, we some time have a little meeting to compare pictures, they knew I shoot film, so they kindly enough to give me sometime to get my film ready. After few rounds of discussion, some of them want to get bigger digicam, and one of them decided to give film another try (she has a nikon manual body). We get along just fine.

I think that's the least I can do to let people know more about photography.

I'm not proselytizing, but if potential converts approach me, I'm happy to oblige.

Ian Grant said:

...
What we must do is show teenagers and young people what alternatives are available to digital, and each and every one of us should make a positive effort.to encourage and nurture new practitioners
...

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So we must promote analog photography:

- see my baseball caps thread for merchandising.
- LF camera's draw attention some MF's too
- Use your website to promote analog photography
- pin bw pictures of your family on the walls of your cubicle

M.

Another way of promoting analogue would be to keep an eye out for exhibitions of good traditional photographers' work and post "have you seen...?" messages on various other ana/digi photo boards. If even some new people attend and see what can be achieved with traditional methods and materials we'll have succeeded in part at least.

I would say that I'm not in favour of any kind of approach on digi-only boards; we get annoyed when they start preaching on APUG, so I feel we should leave them alone too!

Locally in New Haven, there's a small non-profit community art center, The Creative Arts Workshop, that still teaches traditional photography. Darkroom time is inexpensive as well and they have benefited from the poor decision of some local colleges to switch their photography programs to digital only. All the darkroom equipment from these programs has been donated to this art school. They also have a good program for teens in traditional photography.

When I use to live in Chicago, I rented darkrooms at the Evanston Art Center that also had several courses and seminars in traditional photography techniques and also had an extensive program for kids too.

I think we should support these kinds of schools in some way. Maybe even giving them 'free' sponsorship exposure on this site?

Maybe a listing of art schools, pro-labs and stores committed to traditional photography would be a another way to support traditional photography. Something like the list I made for the Toronto Conference, but for everywhere in the world? Like a traditional photography resource directory. It might be too daunting and I know Emulsion is also doing the same, but more promotion is not a bad thing in this case.

Art.

Art, thank you for the link to CAW - I was looking for something like that.

mrcallow said:

I'm out and about with my camera(s) all the time. Just this past weekend I was on the front porch in my robe shooting (with the sinar) the 1972 two-tone dodge van parked infront of my house while it rained cats and dogs.

I think people look at me as more of a cautionary tale than an example.

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Hey I bet it wasn't as cool as this van (Tech V, 4x5", Efke PL100, Acufine, handheld). Maybe someone else got a picture of the weird guy with the weird camera photographing the weird van.