The camera is simply an instrument.

StepheKoontz · May 19, 2019

I'm a big analogy person and feel the camera is an instrument, just like a piano is to someone who can play it. What really made me think of this was a neighbor gave me a box of old cameras and in it was what many people would call junk. I saw this old neglected Soviet Zenit and felt with some TLC it could be "tuned" into a usable instrument. After a couple of hours of cleaning, I put a yellow filter and a lens hood in front of the Helios 58mm f2, and felt some Ilford FP4+ would suit this nearly discarded relic. I doubt many people today would even know how to even "play" this old girl, but when I scanned the negatives, I saw she can still sing.

Clearly some cameras are easier to "play" than others, and there are a variety of types for good reason. Some require the skill level it takes to turn on a radio. Others take years to master. To me the quality of the images any of them create are based on the knowledge the user has of the instrument they are holding, and while being able to reliably repeat what you previsualize is a skill, the vision itself is a gift.

Cholentpot · May 19, 2019

As a guitarist I have a small collection of guitars. Each one on it's own will get me through the gig. Some are beaters, some look nice, some sound excellent and some I only have because I'm attached to them. No other musician ever asked me 'Why do you need a half dozen guitars?'. So yeah, I have a steamer trunk full of cameras. Sometimes I feel like an Argus, sometime a simple Ricohflex TLR will do it. No rhyme or reason. Maybe tomorrow I'll reach for a XA. Why not? Hog heaven for film photography shooters.

I never use yellow filters...should I start?

StepheKoontz · May 19, 2019

Cholentpot said:
I never use yellow filters...should I start?

I love yellow filters for B&W film. It helps define clouds and adds some overall contrast with little exposure penalty. Some days I go with an orange (more contrast) or a red (almost blackens a blue sky).

Theo Sulphate · May 20, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
... I saw this old neglected Soviet Zenit and felt with some TLC it could be "tuned" into a usable instrument.
..

Nice work.

Cholentpot said:
...
I never use yellow filters...should I start?

For landscapes, sky and clouds, definitely.

Vaughn · May 20, 2019

Filters are just another tool. I use a yellow filter primarily in the redwoods in the Fall -- where it brightens its own color relative to other colors -- so the yellow leaves pop.

I look at my photographic work as one process -- including camera, lens and film choices. So I see those choices a little more than "just" instruments, but instead as intragal parts of my work.

Cholentpot · May 20, 2019

I shoot people for the most part. I guess that's why I've not bothered much with filters.

Willy T · May 20, 2019

Oooh! That single rose is a killer - well done, you!

StepheKoontz · May 20, 2019

Cholentpot said:
I shoot people for the most part. I guess that's why I've not bothered much with filters.

You might try a light green filter? Here are some examples https://hoyafilterusa.com/how-filters-for-black-white-photography-work/

Ko.Fe. · May 20, 2019

Where are bad and good instruments. If you are amateur with one roll per month, then you will be ok with Zenit.
On previous week we have to connect 2x600 wires by screwdriver. At HQ they gave me bad screwdrivers. I gave cabling crew my goodscrew driver. If they would use bad screwdrivers - bolsters.
Same with cameras. Zenits are bad instruments. Some of them so bad, they have sharp edges on shutter release.
And all of them are limited by 1/30 and 1/500. So-so instrument capabilities. But ok for amateur .

Oh, Zenit is not a girl, btw. Do you call Nikon as girl?

StepheKoontz · May 20, 2019

Ko.Fe. said:
Same with cameras. Zenits are bad instruments.

That was kinda my point, that an "average" person would never be able to get great results (and no one is pretending these are great cameras, quite the opposite).

More that a camera is simply an instrument: just like a great musician came make beautiful music on just about any piano they play, if it is in tune. But an average player can sit in from at the best piano on the planet and they will still just be average. Clearly neither can play a broken piano or make a badly out of tune one sound great.

Jim Jones · May 20, 2019

If a Pulitzer Prize photograph can be captured with a box camera (it has happened!), many of us can do well enough with modest cameras.

foc · May 20, 2019

A Zenit camera is no different than any other camera.

It is a light-tight box.

Ok it has an agricultural feel to it, it is not refined like a Nikon, but it was built to take photos and that it does.

What is most important is the lens on the front of it and the Helios lens can give many a lens a good run for their money.

As the thread title says, it is just an instrument. It's up to the user to know what to do with it.

Give a monkey a typewriter and he won't produce Shakespeare.

Chan Tran · May 20, 2019

The Zenit can produce good music but I rather not playing it.

Ko.Fe. · May 20, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
... just like a great musician came make beautiful music on just about any piano they play, if it is in tune. But an average player can sit in from at the best piano on the planet and they will still just be average. .

Then our town build art center, town consuls have similar discussion. Those who are just unaware like you, were saying same thing. Those who are educated, knew what great musicians simply refuse to perform on stage if piano is not the Steinway.
Sorry.
Same is Zenit. For static and well lit objects their dull and primitive focus screens are OK. But in low light and for reportage they are bad instruments.
If you can't hear and feel the difference between the Steinway and the rest, it doesn't mean great musicians are same way.
Sorry.

Cholentpot · May 20, 2019

Ko.Fe. said:
Where are bad and good instruments. If you are amateur with one roll per month, then you will be ok with Zenit.
On previous week we have to connect 2x600 wires by screwdriver. At HQ they gave me bad screwdrivers. I gave cabling crew my goodscrew driver. If they would use bad screwdrivers - bolsters.
Same with cameras. Zenits are bad instruments. Some of them so bad, they have sharp edges on shutter release.
And all of them are limited by 1/30 and 1/500. So-so instrument capabilities. But ok for amateur .

Oh, Zenit is not a girl, btw. Do you call Nikon as girl?

I agree. If I have to struggle with a camera on a job it is a bad tool that gets in the way of my work.

As of now I don't rely on film cameras for photography work. You can bet my digital camera is competent, comfortable and reliable when I take a job. If I use film on a job, I'm not using an iffy 40+ year old camera. It's going to be a modern camera with all the bells and whistles like an EOS A2 or Elan system. I've used my F3 on paid jobs, it's reliable enough...

StepheKoontz · May 20, 2019

Ko.Fe. said:
Then our town build art center, town consuls have similar discussion. Those who are just unaware like you, were saying same thing. Those who are educated, knew what great musicians simply refuse to perform on stage if piano is not the Steinway.
Sorry.
Same is Zenit. For static and well lit objects their dull and primitive focus screens are OK. But in low light and for reportage they are bad instruments.
If you can't hear and feel the difference between the Steinway and the rest, it doesn't mean great musicians are same way.
Sorry.

You really aren't getting the point. No one is saying that a Zenit is a great camera! lol Of COURSE I understand there are much, much better cameras, and that the Zenit has serious limitations and are notoriously unreliable.

My point was that any camera is limited by the person behind it and no matter how great the instrument is (Steinway or Hasselblad), someone who is bad will never get nice results. I doubt I could play chopsticks on a Steinway. And I would never take a Zenit to go do my professional event photography, I'll use my D4 for that. But it doesn't mean that it's a useless instrument that can't make interesting images in the right hands. I hoped my example shots would show this. Yes *gasp* I have shot some what I think are pretty cool images from an old Tower box camera. That doesn't mean I am an ignorant twit that doesn't understand that it's not the equal of a Rolleiflex 2.8D. *sigh*

Cholentpot · May 20, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
You really aren't getting the point. No one is saying that a Zenit is a great camera! lol Of COURSE I understand there are much, much better cameras, and that the Zenit has serious limitations and are notoriously unreliable.

My point was that any camera is limited by the person behind it and no matter how great the instrument is (Steinway or Hasselblad), someone who is bad will never get nice results. I doubt I could play chopsticks on a Steinway. And I would never take a Zenit to go do my professional event photography, I'll use my D4 for that. But it doesn't mean that it's a useless instrument that can't make interesting images in the right hands. I hoped my example shots would show this. Yes *gasp* I have shot some what I think are pretty cool images from an old Tower box camera. That doesn't mean I am an ignorant twit that doesn't understand that it's not the equal of a Rolleiflex 2.8D. *sigh*

I got some excellent images on a 1909 Brownie. I've also played a tune on a guitar from the 20's painted with black shoe polish. The finger that pushed the button or plays the chord is the one making the decision. A gun never leaped off a table and killed someone, a camera never snapped an excellent photo on it's own...yet. The human component is still the most important ingredient to taking a great photo.

Theo Sulphate · May 20, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
... But it doesn't mean that it's a useless instrument that can't make interesting images in the right hands. I hoped my example shots would show this. ...

Yes, I think you achieved this very well. Also, I find it rewarding when an instrument, or any object, is used to produce something worthy and is not simply discarded.

Perhaps we should have a subforum, gallery, or ongoing thread that celebrates what such cameras are capable of in talented hands.

Alan Edward Klein · May 20, 2019

What do you all think about the possibility that shooting with a poor camera gets worse results because you're not expecting too much. So you don;t try too hard. On the other hand, working with a fine instrument heightens your thinking and expression so you do better? You take more pride in the result.

Vaughn · May 20, 2019

Alan Edward Klein said:
What do you all think about the possibility that shooting with a poor camera gets worse results because you're not expecting too much. So you don;t try too hard. On the other hand, working with a fine instrument heightens your thinking and expression so you do better? You take more pride in the result.

It might also free one of one's preconceptions and biases that are tied to one's usual camera and technique...thus producing as good if not greater work than before. Or even if the images are not great, the experience teaches something about seeing photographically.

Speed Graphic with magnifying glass as lens (contact silver gelatin print from Type 55 negative), and Diana Camera, Tech Pan film (enlarged silver gelatin print)

naaldvoerder · May 20, 2019

Personaly I very much like what you did with the Zenit. Looks like a camera to me..

removed account4 · May 20, 2019

Jim Jones said:
If a Pulitzer Prize photograph can be captured with a box camera (it has happened!), many of us can do well enough with modest cameras.

Couldn’t agree more! I’m a huge fan of box cameras...

Skeeterfx20 · May 20, 2019

I love gear, any camera gear. I even like to take photographs. But in the end any camera will do and any subject is ok with me. My true passion has always been and will always be in the darkroom. That is where I create, that's where my skill is turning something into even a better photograph. Heck give me an old box camera and I can make it happen in the darkroom. I don't know why and I can't explain any other way but my greatest joy in photography is in developing and printing and doing the impossible. It is amazing what you can do when you take a simple image and turn it into something different.

guangong · May 20, 2019

My experience in painting, stone carving, musical instruments and cameras is that a better instrument is easier to work with. On the other hand, sometimes better instruments require more skill. Carving marble incorrectly, thus chipping a carbide tipped chisel, can be very expensive.
The nature of much photography means capturing unique events, which increases the importance of reliable quality equipment, since an event may never be available again.

awty · May 20, 2019

Skeeterfx20 said:
I love gear, any camera gear. I even like to take photographs. But in the end any camera will do and any subject is ok with me. My true passion has always been and will always be in the darkroom. That is where I create, that's where my skill is turning something into even a better photograph. Heck give me an old box camera and I can make it happen in the darkroom. I don't know why and I can't explain any other way but my greatest joy in photography is in developing and printing and doing the impossible. It is amazing what you can do when you take a simple image and turn it into something different.

Me to, cameras just a tool to give me a negative I can work on.
Although I have an old Zenit with a Helios, the novelty of the swirly shallow depth of field and unpredictability firing wore off after a couple of rolls. There are other cameras better at giving interesting effects and plenty of cheap working late model cameras that are more dependable with better lens.......but you have to try a Zenit combination at least once.
I can't play any instrument so have no idea how they compare, but have seen plenty of people who can enjoyable music with some very basic instruments. Likewise have seen plenty of great pictures made with homemade cameras.

The camera is simply an instrument.

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