The best way to store 20 liters of mixed C41 chemistry is three boxes of Grolsch beer bottles

raymondvanmil · Jan 30, 2017

It took me a full day of brain activity to think this through, how to store 20 liters because if I don't mix it at once it would be oxidized after just a few development runs. A bottle of tetenal spray would not even help I guess... And buying 20 liters of plastic darkroom bottles is also to expensive.. So this Dutch brewery Grolsch has these awesome bottles with a click cap...

A few questions.

- As I understand, bleach needs no protection from air?
- The fix does. I have the SM variation which is premixed and has some oxidation protection. Is it as sensitive as developer? Do I also need to store it in smaller bottles?

AgX · Jan 30, 2017

We often here at Apug discussed the risks of storing processing baths in beverage containers.
Our fellow member PE even rejects using kitchen utensils, that will be thoroughly washed afterwards, for mixing, out of fear getting contaminated for kitchen use.

twelvetone12 · Jan 30, 2017

I would label them VERY CLEARLY

AgX · Jan 30, 2017

And after use bring them back for the stationary?

Rick A · Jan 30, 2017

I don't use recycled beer bottles any more, but I would gladly empty them for you.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 30, 2017

For the chemistry it's probably fine, but it would be better if they were the brown bottles rather than the green glass ones.

For all other purposes - do not use food and beverage related containers for storing things that are harmful to lethal to ingest. There is unnecessary risk, and I would advise to use something intended for the purpose, even if it means expense. Children often don't know how to read, for example, so not only should you have these properly labeled, but you should also make sure that they are safely stored and locked away from all possible accidents. It's simply not a good idea for these reasons.

Just my two cents.

MattKing · Jan 30, 2017

Thomas Bertilsson said:
For all other purposes - do not use food and beverage related containers for storing things that are harmful to lethal to ingest. There is unnecessary risk, and I would advise to use something intended for the purpose, even if it means expense. Children often don't know how to read, for example, so not only should you have these properly labeled, but you should also make sure that they are safely stored and locked away from all possible accidents. It's simply not a good idea for these reasons.

Just my two cents.

I won't disagree about the necessary caution, but would point out that you should be almost as concerned if those children were to get into those bottles when they contained their initial contents.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 30, 2017

MattKing said:
I won't disagree about the necessary caution, but would point out that you should be almost as concerned if those children were to get into those bottles when they contained their initial contents.

I had my first beer when I was 5 years old, and it was certainly not 'approved'. I tried every bottle and container in the fridge and elsewhere, just to see what it was or taste it. I would not have known the difference between what beer was supposed to taste like and film developer.

mnemosyne · Jan 30, 2017

The best solution for you would be 2x10 liter or 4x5 liter bag in box "wine" bags. They will keep C41 fresh very long. Oxygen proof, easy to fill, easy to drain, easy to store, unbreakable, no need for Protectan or similar. No risk being mistaken for food/beverage. Price is under 1 EUR a piece. And of course they can be rinsed and reused.

raymondvanmil · Jan 30, 2017

Guys... I've cleaned them extensively and I don't have children walking around accidentally drinking these bottles, also no friends who search for bear in my darkroom (will label them with skull tape or something) and of course these will not be returned to the shop after there has been chemistry in them.. And the color of the glass does not seem important for something which is in a room which is dark 99% of the day......

trythis · Jan 30, 2017

They probably steam clean them at the brewery, imagine all the other sh*t (literally) that ends up in used bottles, especially in the Netherlands....
I wish we could get those plastic cases and bottle in the US. Denmark has similar for their brewery's. You both have bike designed for carrying them...Great countries!

AgX · Jan 31, 2017

Here is a Google-translation of the german Wikipedia text on the "Flip-Top" bottle closure (erroneously translated as "ironing" closure):

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bügelverschluss&edit-text=
(with soundfile!)

This was the standard closure on beer and soda bottles when I was a small child, then the crown- resp. the srew-cap were introduced and the flip-top vanished completely. Only in the last few years with a nostalgia movement that closure was re-introduced. I have not even seen it yet...

Ron789 · Jan 31, 2017

mnemosyne said:
The best solution for you would be 2x10 liter or 4x5 liter bag in box "wine" bags. They will keep C41 fresh very long. Oxygen proof, easy to fill, easy to drain, easy to store, unbreakable, no need for Protectan or similar. No risk being mistaken for food/beverage. Price is under 1 EUR a piece. And of course they can be rinsed and reused.

In The Netherlands we prefer spending our money on bottles filled with beer rather than empty wine bags.

mnemosyne · Feb 1, 2017

Ron789 said:
In The Netherlands we prefer spending our money on bottles filled with beer rather than empty wine bags.

Well at least in Germany this would be a bad deal, as there is a deposit on the beer bottles and the crate, which makes them a dead/frozen asset standing around in your darkroom. The money which is in the deposit would be spent much better on the booze of your choice

Gerald C Koch · Feb 5, 2017

twelvetone12 said:
I would label them VERY CLEARLY

Loved the installment of "The Big Bang Theory" where Sheldon tells Leonard not to use that particular measuring cup as he uses it to measure his urine each morning. Leonard says "Why didn't you warn me I use it to make pancakes." Sheldon replies that there is a label on the bottom. Leonard then says that he owes Aunt Jemima an apology letter.

Anyway the advantage of using Grolsch bottles is the fun in emptying them.

twelvetone12 · Feb 5, 2017

hahahaha very true!

Kuby · Dec 2, 2017

mnemosyne said:
The best solution for you would be 2x10 liter or 4x5 liter bag in box "wine" bags. They will keep C41 fresh very long. Oxygen proof, easy to fill, easy to drain, easy to store, unbreakable, no need for Protectan or similar. No risk being mistaken for food/beverage. Price is under 1 EUR a piece. And of course they can be rinsed and reused.

The next batch of developer I have to make I'm going to be storing this way. Will see how it goes. Seems like the perfect solution!

Pioneer · Dec 2, 2017

I just buy one liter brown bottles from Photo Formulary. Pretty inexpensive and unless I break one they last a very long time. Clear labels are a must since it is impossible to differentiate fixer from developer in brown, glass bottles.

Unfortunately there is no beer in them when they arrive.

Sirius Glass · Dec 2, 2017

First drink the beer.
Next wash the bottles well.
Label the bottles
Mix chemicals ...

spijker · Dec 3, 2017

I would suggest to leave sufficient time between the drinking of 20 liter beer and mixing the chemicals.

Personally, I would prefer to use larger PET soda (frisdrank, spa rood) bottles instead of the beer bottles. You could use 13 x 1.5L PET + 1 x 0.5L beer bottle instead of 40 beugels. The PET bottles would save you space and weight. And you can still have a beer. Maybe you could go to your local Jumbo, AH etc and see if you can purchase the empty bottles that they collect and normally send off for re-use. Give some though to how much chemicals you would use per development run so that you don't end up with half filled bottles.

Wayne · Dec 3, 2017

mnemosyne said:
The best solution for you would be 2x10 liter or 4x5 liter bag in box "wine" bags. They will keep C41 fresh very long. Oxygen proof, easy to fill, easy to drain, easy to store, unbreakable, no need for Protectan or similar. No risk being mistaken for food/beverage. Price is under 1 EUR a piece. And of course they can be rinsed and reused.

Wine bags aren't at risk of being mistaken for beverage containers? You're gonna have to help me understand that one...I'm confused.

Sirius Glass · Dec 4, 2017

Wayne said:
Wine bags aren't at risk of being mistaken for beverage containers? You're gonna have to help me understand that one...I'm confused.

Twenty liters of wine or beer will make one confused.

Sirius Glass · Dec 4, 2017

Next we will hear about deluding chemicals.

AgX · Dec 4, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Twenty liters of wine or beer will make one confused.

What 20 liters? The largest bag I know of here is 5 liter.

Wayne · Dec 4, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Twenty liters of wine or beer will make one confused.

But I'm not the one who drank all that wine!

The best way to store 20 liters of mixed C41 chemistry is three boxes of Grolsch beer bottles

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