The art world calls it a "derivative"

mooseontheloose

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Not a new problem, but I guess most photographers have to deal with the question at some point. Unlike the posters making comments such as "Who is Michael Kenna? " - omg, do your homework!, the statement "we need to stop with the 'I was here first'" mentality caught my eye. I think any kind of art is derived from things/people that came before, but I think that very few of those people would say "I did this first." It's more like, this person popularized this style, so is most commonly associated with it. I did a long exposure workshop a few years ago, and my instructor who does some interesting work, told us that galleries will no longer accept images in the "Kenna" style because it is just so overdone. We also learned of some photographers who deliberately do not look at other photographer's work specifically because they don't want to be influenced by anyone else (a kind of conceit I think). There are a lot of photographers that I admire (especially Kenna), but I have no interest in trying to imitate him, and even if I did, it still wouldn't look the same (I know, I've tried). I'm more interested in making photos that are interesting to me.
 

faberryman

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Nicely said.
 

removed account4

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the funny thing is
maybe the "copycat" will
do it better than the person they
are allegedly copying .. what happens
there, is it still derivative ?

so all portrait photographers copy the first person who took a portrait ? &C
 

Theo Sulphate

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Why be concerned if someone's work is derivative or not? Initially, for neophytes / amateurs, it may very well be. The question is whether they are thinking about what they're trying to create and evolving or just mindlessly copying a style. Ultimately, I believe, people will put their own impression into their own work subconsciously.
 

benjiboy

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This isn't "the art world" it's the photography world, in my book photography is largely a craft and extremely rarely approaches art.
 

Arklatexian

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You are certainly correct! Why no one can get the same blur in a photograph made from a hand held 35mm camera at 1/500 sec as I seem to be able to.......Regards!
 
OP
OP

Mainecoonmaniac

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LAG said:
... another way to learn!
Click to expand...
That too! But hopefully, a photographer can put their own twist and make it their own. That's how art grows.
 

faberryman

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There is also parallelism, where two photographers create similar images without having seen one another's work. The images are neither imitation nor derivation.
 

TheRook

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Minimalist Photography -a term that has been used in the academic world for a very long time- is only a subcategory of Minimalism, and does not represent Minimalism as a whole.
PetaPixel certainly has plenty of poorly written and researched articles, but I think this one at least brings up some interesting points worth pondering. And Hiroshi Sugimoto is possibly the most renowned, imaginative photographer to come out of Japan within the last 30 years or so. An article on Minimalist Photography without at least mentioning his name would not be complete.
 

TheRook

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Minimalist Photography -a term that has been used in the academic world for a very long time- is only a subcategory of Minimalism, and does not represent Minimalism as a whole.
PetaPixel certainly has plenty of poorly written and researched articles, but I think this one at least brings up some interesting points worth pondering. And Hiroshi Sugimoto is possibly the most renowned, imaginative photographer to come out of Japan within the last 30 years or so. An article on Minimalist Photography without at least mentioning his name would not be complete.
 

klownshed

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Kenna has spoken about how he was influenced by the likes of Bill Brandt and even made his own versions of some of Brandts photos (such as "Bill Brandts Chimney").

You've got to start somewhere and Michael Kenna is as good a place to start as any. But many Kenna 'deriviatives' come second, third, fourth hand... as people copy those who copied somebody who copied someone that copied Kenna who 'copied' Brandt.

Hopefully the better photographers will develop their own style in time.

I find it more tiresome that people are endlessly trying to take the same photo as everybody else. Any visit to Durdle Door (or insert a local attraction here) will have you tripping over photographers lining up to tAke the same shot with the same Big Stopper filter (on the same 5D).
 

faberryman

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If you do a Google image search for Durdle Door, there are thousands of images, some clearly better than others. I doubt the first photograph was the best photograph, so as long as you try to bring something fresh to the image, I don't see a problem photographing something others have photographed before.
 

faberryman

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If you do a Google image search for Durdle Door (or insert a local attraction here), there are thousands of images, some clearly better than others. I doubt the first photograph was the best photograph, so as long as you try to bring something fresh to the image, I don't see a problem photographing something others have photographed before.
 

klownshed

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The point I was trying to make was that they are all taking the same photo.

Of course it's always possible to put your own stamp on things but there are quite a lot of photographers that treat certain photos as bucket list items to collect.

Fine if that's your thing... but it's far more derivative than being inspired by somebody's style.
 

jamesaz

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I believe Piccasso said Someone does it first then someone does it pretty. And if it wasn't him it was someone (maybe saying it pretty)
 
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