The annoying water marks....

TooManyShots · Jul 23, 2014

How do you guys deal with water marks on the color negative, 35mm? I am doing my final rinse with distilled water and adding some wetting agent. Then, I wiped the negative down with a soft sponge. Some recommend using a more expensive, higher quality film squeegee. The result is unpredictable.

Like this shot here, you can see all the white dots by the top left corner.

2600Scan-140722-0007 by vracing, on Flickr

Then, you have this shot which is relatively clean. I have been using Photoshop healing tool to clean them up. Sometimes, the process is soooo tedious I don't even bother...

2600Scan-140722-0008 by vracing, on Flickr

Couple of things I can confirm is that they are water marks because if I rinse the film again, the white dots would change positions. It seems that the issue here isn't restricted to the Tetenal C41 kit. I didn't mix my Tetenal C41 kit with distilled water since in the development process I have to rinse the negatives using tap water.

zanxion72 · Jul 23, 2014

Put the film in water with a small drop of dish washing liquid. Then let it dry all by itself. I do this in all of my films and I don't get any spots.

Nuff · Jul 23, 2014

I don't know about tetenal kit, but in the Rollei one you are not supposed to was wash the negatives.
You are not supposed to use wetting agent. It's not the same as BW film.
The stabiliser has wetting agent and you are not supposed to do anything extra after that step.

David Lyga · Jul 23, 2014

What I do with perfect results every time (without fail) is this: Wash the film. then immerse briefly in clean water with either a bit or wetting agent or dish liquid. (The AMOUNT here is somewhat important but not breathtaking: use enough to cause some bubbles when agitated, not so much that a lot of foam results.)

After this brief immersion, hang to dry (horizontally is best, but certainly not mandatory). Take a damp, very clean sponge and gently wipe the shiny (non-emulsion) side so that there are no drops left on this side. Leave the emulsion side alone. Make CERTAIN that the drying environment is not a place where dust can fly around. Done. - David Lyga

Rudeofus · Jul 23, 2014

Most final rinses contain a bactericide/fungicide that will help improve the keeping properties of your film, and if you rinse with anything after the STAB bath, you wash away these compounds. See (there was a url link here which no longer exists) for details. You should not have to add wetting agent to Tetenal STAB, as it already contains more than enough.

Now why would one have drying marks on film? Either the final rinse is too concentrated, or you have reused the final rinse too many times. If you have these issues with fresh STAB, you should dilute it and add some formalin to counteract the reduced bactericide/fungicide action. If these marks only show up after reuse, try to reduce the amount of tap water being carried over into the STAB bath. You can either shake off as much water as possible before you pour in the STAB bath, or do a prerinse with distilled water before STAB.

TooManyShots · Jul 23, 2014

David Lyga said:
What I do with perfect results every time (without fail) is this: Wash the film. then immerse briefly in clean water with either a bit or wetting agent or dish liquid. (The AMOUNT here is somewhat important but not breathtaking: use enough to cause some bubbles when agitated, not so much that a lot of foam results.)

After this brief immersion, hang to dry (horizontally is best, but certainly not mandatory). Take a damp, very clean sponge and gently wipe the shiny (non-emulsion) side so that there are no drops left on this side. Leave the emulsion side alone. Make CERTAIN that the drying environment is not a place where dust can fly around. Done. - David Lyga

I will try to hang it horizontally next time and only wiping the non-emulsion side. Yes, I understand the reason for the stabilizer. I also read that many of the newer color films, soaking it with stabilizer isn't necessary. In the past, I rinsed the negative with the stabilizer as the last rinse but the white watermarks were a lot worst. Instead, I put some photoflow, not a lot, and to do my final rinse using only distilled water. The result was better but it is still unpredictable. I think I will try a different C41 kit next time.

Sirius Glass · Jul 23, 2014

With color negatives:
1. Do not use a wetting agent, the chemical kit has what it needs.
2. Throw away the squeegee. That will be the best photographic thing one can do.

GRHazelton · Jul 23, 2014

Water marks

A pretty good place to dry film is in the shower, turned off of course. I use wood spring clothes pins (they were good enough for Ansel Adams, they're good enough for me!) and hang the film by a pin at one corner, and another at the bottom in the opposite corner, so the speak, so that the film is on a subtle diagonal, the idea being that water will run down one side.

A good idea to run the shower for a few minutes to help settle any dust, and try to keep people of the room while things dry.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jul 23, 2014

You probably have hard water where you live. I would use distilled water and some sort of drying agent. I use a couple of drops of Edwal LFN and Trader Joes Kitchen wipes. I don't use squeegees anymore because when the rubber gets hold and hard, it will scratch you negs. But these are the wipes I'm referring to. After I'm done, I rinse them in cold water and hang to dry.

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/trader-joes-sup-30252

TooManyShots · Jul 23, 2014

Mainecoonmaniac said:
You probably have hard water where you live. I would use distilled water and some sort of drying agent. I use a couple of drops of Edwal LFN and Trader Joes Kitchen wipes. I don't use squeegees anymore because when the rubber gets hold and hard, it will scratch you negs. But these are the wipes I'm referring to. After I'm done, I rinse them in cold water and hang to dry.

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/trader-joes-sup-30252

Is actually soft, I am in NYC. I know because I keep 2 fish tanks. The hardness is about less than 1ppm or 1 degree GH.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jul 23, 2014

The water is good enough for NY pizza dough

TooManyShots said:
Is actually soft, I am in NYC. I know because I keep 2 fish tanks. The hardness is about less than 1ppm.

My darkroom is in Sacramento and we have excellent water too. But I get water marks if I don't wipe my film thoroughly. I used to work in a lab were Photo flo wasn't changed often and scum with grow in it. Water marks would happen. When I process film, I use a couple of drops of Edwal LFN in a pint of water, then toss it after one session. I've heard of some APUGers have had great luck with a few drops of isopropyl alcohol in the final rinse will work too. I'm staying away from squeegees because some of my film I shot from Cambodia got scratched. I just us wipes now.

pdeeh · Jul 23, 2014

Mainecoonmaniac said:
isopropyl alcohol in the final rinse

I wouldn't use isopropyl, I had negatives messed up because of that as did another forum member who tried it recently.

If you want to use alcohol in the final rinse, then methyl is the stuff to go with. It's an old trick for quick drying rather than avoiding marks - for black and white film anyway

(not all alcohols are equal)

For colour film, follow Rudeofus' advice, and make up the STAB with distilled or deionised water.

chrisaisenbrey · Jul 23, 2014

Using the Rollei/Digibase kit Ive some problems with watermarks. (Im using deionized water for all my solutions) Now Im doing another rinse in deionized water between the fixer and the stabilizer. This solved the problem for me.

Chris

mklw1954 · Jul 23, 2014

I use the Unicolor powder kit and got significant water marks even though the stabilizer was made up with distilled water. Adding 1/2 teaspoon of PhotoFlo concentrate to 1 liter of stabilizer solved the problem. I've found I need to add another 1/2 tsp. PhotoFlo after processing 10 rolls (I get 15 rolls from a 1-liter kit).

Interestingly, I never got drying marks on 120 film, only 135 film; maybe different surface tensions with the different film bases?

cliveh · Jul 23, 2014

No Photo flow or wetting agent, just dunk in deionised water for about 30 seconds and swirl around after final wash. No drying marks guaranteed.

GRHazelton · Jul 23, 2014

Methyl alcohol?????

pdeeh said:
I wouldn't use isopropyl, I had negatives messed up because of that as did another forum member who tried it recently.

If you want to use alcohol in the final rinse, then methyl is the stuff to go with. It's an old trick for quick drying rather than avoiding marks - for black and white film anyway

(not all alcohols are equal)

For colour film, follow Rudeofus' advice, and make up the STAB with distilled or deionised water.

I wonder if the problem with isopropyl alcohol was using so-called rubbing alcohol, which often has emollients added to relieve dry skin after use on the body. Methyl alcohol is really poisonous; so-called denatured would be a little safer, although good ventilation would be a good idea. 200 proof grain alcohol would be a solution; any excess could be cut with water and .... voila! Vodka!

pdeeh · Jul 23, 2014

Not in my case, this was lab grade isopropyl alcohol; what is called in the UK methylated spirits will do the job (presumably much the same as what is also called denatured)

"Rubbing alcohol" is I think the same as what is called "surgical spirit" in the UK - the stuff I have in my bathroom contains castor oil and some salicylate; the stuff under my sink however is 99.9% isopropanol

Jaf-Photo · Jul 23, 2014

I finish off by pouring distilled water over the film in the spiral, then dunking it a couple of times and shaking off any drops that will shake off.

After that take the film out at let it dry at room temperature. No water marks.

But it's important to soak and rinse the film before that final stage.

The annoying water marks....

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