The 645's

MattKing · Sep 10, 2024

I do get benefit from the interchangeable backs - in two ways.
1) I do from time to time use both colour and black and white film for the same subject. The ability to switch mid-roll greatly increases flexibility. Of course, it also increases the likelihood of being left with one or more half shot rolls; and
2) the part of all these older cameras that is most likely to require service is the film transport mechanism. And interchangeable backs provide a good portion of the benefits of having a backup camera.
Two Mamiya 645 Pro shots from the same outing - one TMax 400, the other Ektachrome:

loccdor · Sep 10, 2024

cerber0s said:
Cool! Where do you find 220-film these days?

Shanghai GP3 100 is available in 220 new. Forum user MCB18 spools infrared-sensitive Agfa Aviphot 200 onto 220 as well. He may be doing some color negative cinema film on 220 in the future and he also has a thread on how to do it yourself. Then there is the expired film market.

MFstooges · Sep 10, 2024

Dustin McAmera said:
'I reckon I could really save money by buying another camera'

That there is the road to hell.

The GASoline smell is strong on this post

Marcelo Paniagua · Sep 10, 2024

cerber0s said:
The Bronicas are not as common here as the Mamiyas, or even Pentax. The lenses also seem to be a lot more expensive.

Thats a bummer. I love the other Mamiyas (C330,RB67 and the Press) but prefer the Bronica over the Mamiya 645. I would lean towards Mamiya for 645 for a) One of the fastest lens on MF and b)I'm biases to the Mamiya

abruzzi · Sep 10, 2024

MattKing said:
I do get benefit from the interchangeable backs - in two ways.
1) I do from time to time use both colour and black and white film for the same subject. The ability to switch mid-roll greatly increases flexibility. Of course, it also increases the likelihood of being left with one or more half shot rolls; and
2) the part of all these older cameras that is most likely to require service is the film transport mechanism. And interchangeable backs provide a good portion of the benefits of having a backup camera.

Very good point, but I'll add a third benefit--I frequently take my ETRSi or SQ-A as my small vacation camera. One moment I may be outside in the bright sun photographing the exterior of Sagrada Familia--100 speed E100 preferred, then I step into the cathedral. My eyes adjust but for 100 speed film with no tripod, the light inside the cathedral is way to dark, so I pop off the E100 back and load up the back with Portra 800 in it (the fastest color film in 120) or if I want a B&W shot I have a back with Delta 3200.

I'm leaving on a motorcycle trip so I need small size and weight, I'm thinking of taking my Fuji GA645Zi, but I'm worried that it doesn't have a interchangable back, and will I miss having interchnagability between film types/speeds?

pentaxuser · Sep 10, 2024

benveniste said:
The Pentax 645 family does have interchangeable inserts, but you can't easily change them mid-roll. For people who proofed with polaroids, this made it a non-starter.

I am a P645N owner but I have yet to work out a way to change inserts mid roll without the tremendous bother of a changing bag and the ínsert's holder which you'd have to fit over the insert in the bag which is at mid-roll. Having gone to all that trouble I am not sure whether the holder forms a light tight seal anyway

What you can do at great cost and wastage of fílm depending where on the roll you are is to wind the roll on to the end so opening the insert is safe

So the latter is safe but wasteful of film and the former is cumbersome and leaves the question of whether the holder is light tight and needing the owner to remember which frame was reached as the frame counter, I think, will go back to 0 on refitting and may try to run it forward to O as if ít is a new roll and waste a few more frames

Out of curiosity does any owner of a P645N know of a way to do all of the above without the above real or assumed problems

Thanks

pentaxuser

pentaxuser · Sep 10, 2024

Paul Howell said:
I am moving towards a Pentax, I no longer shoot color film so interchangeable backs are not prime consideration. I do shoot sports and wildlife so a long lens is a +.

The 200mm and 300mm lens secondhand manual focus lenses are reasonably priced as well in the U.K. but I'd imagine the same holds for the U .S. but it's a very heavy beast with either lens and fast shutter speeds are the order of the day if there is any motion involved

pentaxuser

cerber0s · Sep 10, 2024

pbromaghin said:
Instead of interchangeable backs, just get
2 cameras. Think how much more you’ll save!

Enabler!

Paul Howell · Sep 10, 2024

pentaxuser said:
The 200mm and 300mm lens secondhand manual focus lenses are reasonably priced as well in the U.K. but I'd imagine the same holds for the U .S. but it's a very heavy beast with either lens and fast shutter speeds are the order of the day if there is any motion involved

pentaxuser

Pentax is 1/1000 of a second, I would shoot with a tripod or maybe a monopod. I would shoot on tripod Tmax 400 rated at 800. The longest lens I have in 6X6 is a 250, Kowa did make a 500, but rare and expensive and leaf shutter with top speed of 1/500.

Oldwino · Sep 10, 2024

I use a Mamiya 645 1000s. I love it because it is simple in design, but works well. No dodgy mirror stops like in the Pro. The electronics are common parts, no integrated circuit boards, and can still be repaired. (My 1000s had to get a new capacitor and timing switch recently. $40 in parts).

I used to be one of the "multiple backs" people, but after a while I realized it just wasn't that important to me. I tend to stick with one film for a while anyway.

The lenses are generally very good to great. Everyone seems to want the 80mm f1.9, but they all seem to develop an incurable fog between two cemented elements, so good luck finding one that'll last. I find the 55mm, 110mm and the 120 macro to be excellent.

Best part is they are inexpensive. Bodies are cheap and lenses are, too.

GRHazelton · Sep 10, 2024

loccdor said:
I very much enjoy using the Mamiya 645 (the old manual Junior version, M645J). I was able to pick it up for just over $100, plus a few $20's more for a viewfinder, insert, and adapter so that I could use my existing Pentacon Six mount lenses on it. Since you mentioned shots per roll, I'll note that it's possible to get 30 shots with it using 220 film, making it one of the least "reloady" medium formats available. I just took mine on a trip where I shot 15 rolls of 220 film without a single issue, even using Shanghai GP3 220 of dubious quality control.

I was considering the Pentax 645 but hearing about the dark viewfinder put me off of it.

The M645J's main disadvantages are that it can be easy to accidentally press the shutter (that's why it has a shutter lock and you need to use it), will realistically require manual light metering, and there isn't a handle to grab onto on the body: it's pretty much just a box. I wouldn't attach a handle though, as that would make it too bulky.

The native lenses are great and tons of lenses can be adapted to it due to the short flange distance.

Mirror slap can be a problem with medium format SLRs so you will want to get a model with lockup if you do a lot of tripod work between the 2 second to 1/30 second shutter range.

The 645n has a far brighter viewfinder than the 645, as Ken Rockwell noted. See this: https://www.kenrockwell.com/pentax/645/645n.htm It also has a really intuitive control layout; an instruction manual is hardly necessary.
I have one and can agree with Ken. BTW, the 35mm wide angle lens is truly excellent. Sadly the introduction of Pentax digital medium format cameras has driven the cost of AF lenses up, out of my reach.

benveniste · Sep 10, 2024

pentaxuser said:
I am a P645N owner but I have yet to work out a way to change inserts mid roll without the tremendous bother of a changing bag and the ínsert's holder which you'd have to fit over the insert in the bag which is at mid-roll. Having gone to all that trouble I am not sure whether the holder forms a light tight seal anyway

Out of curiosity does any owner of a P645N know of a way to do all of the above without the above real or assumed problems

Nope. The only thing I'd add is that I'd keep the insert in the holder in the changing bag.

ant! · Sep 10, 2024

GRHazelton said:
Sadly the introduction of Pentax digital medium format cameras has driven the cost of AF lenses up, out of my reach.

Beside the 75mm and 150mm AF lenses which are really expensive, many others I found quite cheap from Japan, from 35mm and 33-55mm up to 400mm. For 75 and 150mm I just use the manual lenses, and for 55mm is no AF lens (beside one for digital without aperture ring), so this one manual as well.
But now the digital line 645Z is discontinued, no idea how/if they continue...

OAPOli · Sep 10, 2024

You can swap films in a camera without removable backs... sorta. 1) make note of the frame count, remove the insert/film in the dark and rewind the film onto the original spool; 2) reload the film and shoot with the lens cap until the noted count +1. Not ideal to say the least.

cerber0s · Sep 10, 2024

OAPOli said:
You can swap films in a camera without removable backs... sorta. 1) make note of the frame count, remove the insert/film in the dark and rewind the film onto the original spool; 2) reload the film and shoot with the lens cap until the noted count +1. Not ideal to say the least.

No, not ideal. I’d like to be able to do it ”in the field”. But I guess two bodies of one of the cheaper models could do the trick. It’s not a dealbreaker should one turn up at a good price.

The 645's

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