That's It I've Had IT

marsbars · Jun 8, 2007

I am a bit of a pack-rat with little or no extra cash for my hobbies. I always find the money to buy film to feed my cameras and generally have little trouble finding a subject that interests me. However I never seem to have the money or the energy to drive across town and get my film developed at the local pro lab.
This week I finally said I am going to get my backlogs of film that are waiting in the fridge developed. I took 8 rolls of B&W and 4 rolls of E6 in. 60 bucks later and now I am pissed.
The E6 was fine, as it always is. I have never gotten back a bad roll. However my B&W is another story. Mind you all I am not faithful to one brand or emulsion but I am narrowing it down. But that is not the issue here. Of the 8 rolls that I shot one is ruined. Not by my poor shooting habits or other things. The lab hosed it to the max. It is a roll of T-Max 400 that has this big honking black streak down the upper 1/3 of the whole negative. And another roll of my APX 100 has the same issue in a few places. This isn't just a light streak on the TMX it is like someone took a sharpie to it. I know that this is caused from the rollers in the processing machine. I know that it happens from time to time but there is still no excuse to me. I know that I only have to pay $3.50 per roll for development but still this is a pro lab. I am just glad that there aren't any award winning frames on that roll. The APX is a different story. There are about 5 good shots on the roll that I would like to have printed. But I think that I can crop out the black areas as on this roll they are on the very edge of just a couple of the frames.

I called the lab after I got home to let them know and they said that they are very sorry that this happened and that they would check the machine. They even offered me a free replacement roll but I doubt that I will take them up on the offer as it is a hassle to get there before they close as they are only open during the week and I work. Plus they said that they would replace it with the same film and I am finding that I don't like anything shot on TMX.
So Thats It, first extra cash I get I am going to start developing my own B&W. At least if it gets hosed I am to blame and I can use it as a learning experience. Sorry all for the rant but I had to vent and I know all here can relate.

Andrew Moxom · Jun 8, 2007

Welcome to the darkside. Souping your own B+W film is the only way to go. Like you said, any issues are likely your fault, and it needn't cost you an arm and a leg to get started. If you can follow simple process, and be consistent with it, you will be fine.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 8, 2007

My only advice is to try to use a lab that has dip&dunk machines. The processing of the film is usually extremely even, and I've never seen a scratch caused by the machine. I worked at a pro lab in Minneapolis, and I never saw one single bad roll come through their machines. We did have a couple of sheets once that were dropped on the floor after processing, and once a C-41 roll got cross processed in E6 chemistry, and one guy cut negs into strips when asked not to, but those were all the accidents I saw during my tenure there.
Or the other option is to process your film at home. Then you can only blame yourself for the results, and you have much more control over the end results.
- Thomas

braxus · Jun 8, 2007

Sounds like you need to find a dip and dunk lab to solve the problem. Is this the only lab you can send to?

mjs · Jun 8, 2007

I think that you will find that processing your own 35mm B&W film is easy and cheap; much less than $3.50 per roll. Tanks, reels, and graduates go for little to nothing on Ebay these days and once you have that all you need are chemicals and some film to develop. It's probably going to cost as much or more to ship the stuff to you than it is to buy it.

While you're getting your feet wet, try using Tri-X film and D-76 developer for your first few rolls (or their Ilford equivalents: HP5 Plus film and ID-11 developer, I believe.) It is difficult to screw this combination up so much that you don't get a printable negative out of the deal. Also, save any screwed up rolls of film: you'll want something disposable to practice loading the reels with. Good luck!

Mike

nworth · Jun 9, 2007

Processing your own black and white is easy. The equipment requirement in minimal, and you don't even need a darkroom. A tank, reel, changing bag, and a couple of refrigerator bottles, maybe a funnel, and you're in business.

The issue with labs is a serious one. They seem to be getting worse and worse. A very well respected professional lab in this area just ruined eight rolls of C-41 that I shot on a rather expensive trip. I decided that I will do my own C-41 processing from now on, despite the time and hassle of it.

braxus · Jun 9, 2007

Problem I see with labs is two fold. They aren't maintaining their equipment as often due to low volume, and low volume is not helping the equipment stay in check. Secondly some labs are letting go of their higher wage experienced workers to cut costs, and then hiring lower wage beginners which don't know much at all. Mistakes then happen. That or the labs are cutting hours so much that the long term people leave. In essence not only are film companies getting to the point they have to possibly cut corners to make their products (supply of chemicals, etc to make film), but labs are now too. That or they go out of business (as some have).

Tom Stanworth · Jun 9, 2007

$60 gets you your filam and papers chemicals and some trays...Just need an enlarger now!

Excellent. It might have been a product of frustration but you'll have no regrets now. This is the reason I do my own framing. I get so mad when other people let their standards slip. At least I only have myself to blame now, as will you!

marsbars · Jun 9, 2007

There is only the one lab in town for B&W and E6 that I have heard anything good about. And shipping it off somewhere else makes even less sense for a strapped photog like me. The E6, now that is a different story. Always had excellent results from them. I think that there are a couple of other labs in town but I shoot far less slide than I do B&W. In all of my slides that I go back today only about 15 are even worth the maybe pile. And that is out of 4 rolls of 36. On the other hand I bet there are 2 times that in my BW that are worth taking another look at.
THanks all for the encouragement. Just time to scrape the pennies to get my gear.

boyooso · Jun 9, 2007

no matter who 'works the machines' bad things happen at least once.

It is when lightning strikes more than once that you need to ask why.

FWIW when I work on my car, I really screw things up bad, that is why I take it to a mechanic.

However, developing your film is quite different, and essential I recommend it. It might take some time to work out the kinks, but well worth it!

Corey

Chris Breitenstein · Jun 9, 2007

Go for it! Developing your own is so much cheaper then taking it to a lab. plus you have more control, and if you are precise your results will be far more consistent. unfortunately you wont have anywhere to print them. Perhaps a negative scanner? I picked one up, a real P.O.S., that also does photos for about $90 new. Food for thought.

Yours;

efreddi · Jun 9, 2007

Sorry for the troubble you had, but actually real B&W is worth if you develop the film at home. There are other nice ways to make b&w (C41 films, digital desaturated images, etc...) but if you want FILM then it's worth to develop it. It's pretty easy, don't worry
Regs

Elia

Mike Richards · Jun 9, 2007

I've been developing my own b&w on and off for 55 years. It's still a joy to me. I don't have space for an enlarger and paper darkroom anymore, but a scanner, computer, and printer give me the images I want. You end up with lots of control of exposure, highlights, shadows, tonality, sharpness, and grain. Changing bag, some tanks/reels, thermometer, and a few other odds and ends (e.g. film clips, although clothespins will do) will get you started. One shot chemicals are a good way to start (e.g. Kodak HC-110, Rodinal developers). You save the trouble of mixing and keeping track of dates and number of uses. Jump in and have fun.

fschifano · Jun 9, 2007

mjs said:
...try using Tri-X film and D-76 developer for your first few rolls (or their Ilford equivalents: HP5 Plus film and ID-11 developer, I believe.)Mike

Yeah, Kodak's Tri-X or Plus-X, or Ilford's HP5+ or FP4+ in either D-76 or ID-11 are solid combinations for your initial foray into the dark side. Can't go too wrong with any combination of the above. My comparisons between D-76 and ID-11 show that these two developers are identical in action. If there are any differences, I can't see them.

marsbars · Jun 9, 2007

I generally just have my film developed and I then scan them with my little film scanner. If it is a good shot then I have it printed by an online printer. I have had several prints made and for the price the results are great. If it is a true piece of art then I have it professionally enlarged with the dodging and burning on real photo paper. But those shots are far and few between.

drpsilver · Jun 10, 2007

09 June 2007

Marsbars:

I also encourage you to process your own B&W film. It is really quite simple, and can be very economic. As others have said, consistence is the "name of the game". I have found that the more notes I take on film/developer/time/temperature factors the more I am able to learn about what effects film development.

I have found that D76(1:1) has worked very well with all of the films mentioned. By using D76 or ID-11 1:1 you economize on developer, but they should be used "one-shot" only, i.e. used once then disposed of.

Enjoy your time in the dark!

Regards,
Darwin

m_liddell · Jun 10, 2007

After having my b&w butchered each and every time I took to somewhere (even when hand processed) I dev my own. Even the times when it didn't have scratches all over it etc. it was terribly overdeveloped. If you must use a lab shoot XP2.

If you want good quality control, do it yourself.

dr5chrome · Jun 10, 2007

B&W film is easy and cheap; much less than $3.50 per roll.
Mike[/QUOTE]

..where did you get this number? Today this is not possible.
In addition, doing your own B&W is very fulfilling, regardless of the cost and time.

dw

dr5chrome · Jun 10, 2007

These conditions are very true for most custom labs today.
I would only add many custom labs have to come up with more creative ways to cut costs as the buying public continues to complain about necessary price increases, furthering lesser volume, furthering more closures.

750+ labs closed in '06 in the US and i expect that number to just as high this year. It is unfortunate that photographers are going to have to ship out their film. The day of the corner shop is over.

dw

braxus said:
Problem I see with labs is two fold. They aren't maintaining their equipment as often due to low volume, and low volume is not helping the equipment stay in check. Secondly some labs are letting go of their higher wage experienced workers to cut costs, and then hiring lower wage beginners which don't know much at all. Mistakes then happen. That or the labs are cutting hours so much that the long term people leave. In essence not only are film companies getting to the point they have to possibly cut corners to make their products (supply of chemicals, etc to make film), but labs are now too. That or they go out of business (as some have).

kwmullet · Jun 10, 2007

dw said:
dr5chrome said:

B&W film is easy and cheap; much less than $3.50 per roll.
Mike

Click to expand...

..where did you get this number? Today this is not possible.
In addition, doing your own B&W is very fulfilling, regardless of the cost and time.
dw

dw,

I'm curious -- not possible in what way?

A lot of the time I use arista.edu film which runs less than two dollars a roll ($1.49 at Freestyle). If you re-use your developer (and use something like Diafine: a one gallon kit for $13.99, and if you filter it when you pour it back into your bottle, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it for at least fifty rolls of film: that's just under US$0.28 a roll, bringing per-roll cost to US$1.77) and use rapid fix to about 75% of capacity (Freestyle has 1 liter bottles of Ilford Rapid Fix for 9.59, film-strength dilution is 1 part concentrate + 4 parts water, so that 1 liter bottle will make 5 liters of film-strength fixer, each liter of which Ilford says has capacity for 24 36-exposure rolls of 35mm film, so using that 1-liter bottle of concentrate to fix film only and reusing it up to 75% of capacity would mean you'd be fixing around 90 rolls of film at a cost of something like US$0.11) bringing the cost per roll, including film, to something like US$1.88, leaving plenty of room in this $3.50 budget for various sundries like hypo clearing agent, photo flo, electricity, cost of water, cheap wine to drink while processing, etc. If you want to spend more, you can probably begin by making the fixer one-shot, or switching to a one-shot developer that will yield even more pleasing images than Diafine.

The point is that it can be done very cheaply. When we moved and didn't have a darkroom for two+ years, we developed tons of film in the same gallon of Diafine, developed in the kitchen in a tank loaded in a film changing bag (could have easily been a jacket sealed with duct tape) using nothing higher-tech for a timer than a wall clock or wrist watch with the times written in grease pencil on the window.

You can spend as much money as you want to spend, or very nearly as little. Technique is the most valuable ingredient to good pictures -- not money spent on materials and equipment; that's just gravy.

I remain convinced that carefully home-developed b&w film will usually yield much better results than any lab.

-KwM-

JCT · Jun 10, 2007

It's also the ultimate approach to having complete control over the creative process from stem to stern- nothing beats that!

And it's a blast -- I still grin everytime I pull a nice roll out of the wash bath. OK, even the lousy rolls crack me up.

Enjoy,

JT

marsbars · Jun 10, 2007

I don't count the cost of the film in my costs. The 3.50/ roll is just my cost at the local lab. that doesn't count the cost of the film which is between 2.50 and 6.00 a roll depending on brand and where I ended up getting it.

fhovie · Jun 10, 2007

Other than a few specialty shops - NO ONE CARES ABOUT B&W FILM PROCESSING. They do it quick and carelessly and wrong - it is an inconvenience for them. They will be glad if you do not bring in any more B&W film. They use crap chems and cook them too much and basically ruin them.

Processing B&W film for the amateur is the easiest thing you can do. Make some split D-23 - you cannot screw it up - It doesn't care much about time or temp and will always do a decent job.

Of course then .... you will get hooked. An soon, more chemicals - an enlarger - a darkroom - a densitometer - a lab balance and a stirrer. Soon - you will wind up wearing black pants, black snap up shirt, black vest and black cowboy boots - and a red Beret.

You will be cursed as an artist and it will be all you think about ....

You know, there are some nice specialty shops that do a good job on B&W ...

RalphLambrecht · Jun 12, 2007

When I started in photography, I was too scared to develop my own film. My own prints, yes, but film, no way. After I learned how to do it, I'm too scared to give my film to anyone else. No, I just couldn't do it anymore.

htmlguru4242 · Jun 12, 2007

Starting with my second roll of black and white, I've done my own developing. It's extremely easy and rewarding, not to mention inexpensive! I decided it would be a good idea after my first roll came back from the lab with 2 issues. First off, it was overdeveloped to hell; probably some of the thickest negatives I've yet had. Second, the moron at the lab put my film into the printer the wrong way, and all of my shots were laterally reversed. I told myself that I'd never again use a lab (for B&W).

Now, I'm even starting to get into [gasp], C-41 development at home. It's actually not as bad as I'd expected, though it is picky and exacting. My first few rolls have come out OK.

That's It I've Had IT

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